Posted on Feb 4, 2015
Is it appropiate for a prior service member to correct service members on AR 670-1 violations?
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Is it appropriate for any PSMs to correct the violations of AR 670-1 on any currently serving SM? This includes any rank (PVT to O-5). As a PSM who honorably served in the Army, I see many soldiers who violate AR 670-1, And I have corrected most, including SGTs and higher (I am a PV2). Am I wrong for this? And, can we, as PSMs report disrespect after corrections to brigade commanders if corrections are ignored? Thoughts, please.
Posted 11 y ago
Responses: 77
So....even after you get out of the military, you continue to download copies of the latest 670-1???
These aren't the same people who are having trouble finding a job, are they?
These aren't the same people who are having trouble finding a job, are they?
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MAJ Jim Steven
@MAJ Keith Benoit
PV2 Daniel Shipley
If you feel like you can help a dude out, by all means, go ahead...
Do it with a smile, and no expectation...
If you are wishing you were still in, or fantasizing about being a drill SGT...then deal with those issues.
I appreciate the time that you served...but if you are out, feel free to leave it behind and go make your Mark on the world as a civilian!!
PV2 Daniel Shipley
If you feel like you can help a dude out, by all means, go ahead...
Do it with a smile, and no expectation...
If you are wishing you were still in, or fantasizing about being a drill SGT...then deal with those issues.
I appreciate the time that you served...but if you are out, feel free to leave it behind and go make your Mark on the world as a civilian!!
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Suspended Profile
PV2 Daniel Shipley the way that you responded to MAJ Jim Steven with all the CAPS when he is a field grade officer I can only imagine how you have went about correcting the current SM. Hence the reason you are asking this question and about the SM disrespecting you. If there is any disrespect coming out here its from a pv2 who was in the military a shorter time then the MAJ was a 2LT.
SFC (Join to see)
Oh My, Mr Shipley if that's the way your going to react maybe.....Just maybe you should think twice before making an on the spot correction. As they say two rongs never make a right.
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SGT Bryon Sergent
PV2 Daniel Shipley - To this I have to agree with the rest of the comments! You where VERY disrespectful to a Field Grade Officer! The was no tact or anything in your response. I have wanted to choke someone out that has done something I didn't like, but there is still the Customs and Courtesies that MUST be kept to standard. You can disagree with anyone, but how you handle yourself and the tact you use is another thing. He is a Major how has at least 12 years in the Military. That alone is enough to clam you tongue!
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I see nothing wrong with a PSM making a on the spot correction if they see something out of the ordinary or incorrect on my uniform following they meet the two underlying conditions.
1. Know the most up to date version of AR 670-1 (new changes are always implemented greatest changes to the most recent version were regarding ethnic hairstyles and tattoos being approved for those grandfathered in.)
2. Use Tact when making an on spot correction, don't walk up to someone yelling at them as you see in some of the stolen valor videos online mind you those are a different situation however be mindful and pull the person to the side for a more interpersonal conversation. keep in mind most people if they just didn't notice something was off (i.e. pocket flap open) they will usually thank you and be glad you corrected them keep in mind some people may take it offensively but in my experience I've never met someone who I had to correct get upset at me for doing so. Also they may possibly be less inclined to listen to a PSM if that is their mindset however like I said I haven't ran in to that personally. As I was always told it is better for someone to correct you at a lower level than you walk in and a high up sees it.
1. Know the most up to date version of AR 670-1 (new changes are always implemented greatest changes to the most recent version were regarding ethnic hairstyles and tattoos being approved for those grandfathered in.)
2. Use Tact when making an on spot correction, don't walk up to someone yelling at them as you see in some of the stolen valor videos online mind you those are a different situation however be mindful and pull the person to the side for a more interpersonal conversation. keep in mind most people if they just didn't notice something was off (i.e. pocket flap open) they will usually thank you and be glad you corrected them keep in mind some people may take it offensively but in my experience I've never met someone who I had to correct get upset at me for doing so. Also they may possibly be less inclined to listen to a PSM if that is their mindset however like I said I haven't ran in to that personally. As I was always told it is better for someone to correct you at a lower level than you walk in and a high up sees it.
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CPT (Join to see)
How are you supposed to catch the stolen valor criminals? It all starts with spot corrections.
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PV2 Daniel Shipley
I've done it quite a few times. I was at a local gas station, and noticed an individual who was wearing a "Desert Storm Veteran" cap. As we was filing up our cups of sodas, I asked him if he had served (knowing he was about the same age as me, but hushing up to see what he would say) He said yes. From there, I immediately knew he was stealing valor. I asked him his dates of service, he replied 2002-2006 (more than 650,000 Service members served in Operation Desert Shield and Desert Storm from August 2, 1990 to July 31, 1991) Then I asked him his rank, he replied "I was a lance corporal when I left" (it was an Army cap) Still, I keep my cool and continue to ask questions. My next question was " What was your unit during ODS?" He replied "The 83rd" I asked "The 83rd? 83rd what?" He said "Unit" I then started calling him out in front of everyone in the gas station, as he continued to claim his contribution to ODS.
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MAJ Ronnie Reams
That would be my problem, I'm so out of date, I'd have no clue except maybe the order of ribbons.
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Yes, but only if they are aware of the current regulations. Example: an unnamed CSM in the Army "corrected" my apparent mustache infraction according to Army standards. He was unaware that Naval regulations differ from Army regulations, and that I was within Naval regulation (since I am a sailor). Thankfully it was easily fixed by printing the regulation and showing him, but that is not always possible with a retiree which you may not ever see again. My point is if I am retired and the individual looks professional, I will never question him/her (because I have no intention to study 5 differing regulations after I am out).
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Yes, but show some respect when you are doing it and do so in the spirit of helping a Soldier get better......If you are junior and get brushed off......don't be surprised to find out that the offender went home, broke out 670-1 - checked the mirror.....and made the correction....
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That's appropriate. I've been pulled to the side at home while on RA by a retired female Marine who advised me on my hair and that my skirt may need to be tailored if it doesn't sit where it's supposed to after I returned to my normal weight (I dropped almost 15 pounds in boot camp), because it sat too low on my hips and it seemed too long.
Personally, I'd rather be corrected than have someone shake their head and watch me look like a shitbag.
Personally, I'd rather be corrected than have someone shake their head and watch me look like a shitbag.
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PV2 Daniel Shipley
I think it is very appropriate for former military personnel to make on-the-spot corrections if they observe a violation. Approaching the individual in a "helpful" manner would most likely be appreciated by the service member, particularly if he/she were unaware of the discrepancy. I have done that on many occasions and I think the person being corrected/helped was appreciative that I brought the issue to his/her attention.
I have never run into a situation where the service member "copped an attitude" with me. Not sure what I would have done, if he/she had. One thing for sure, however... I would not have simply walked off and forgotten about it.
I think that a person's approach to the situation sets the tone. Approach as trying to be helpful, not demanding or overbearing.
Bottom line is that violations should be pointed out and corrected by anybody observing them.
I think it is very appropriate for former military personnel to make on-the-spot corrections if they observe a violation. Approaching the individual in a "helpful" manner would most likely be appreciated by the service member, particularly if he/she were unaware of the discrepancy. I have done that on many occasions and I think the person being corrected/helped was appreciative that I brought the issue to his/her attention.
I have never run into a situation where the service member "copped an attitude" with me. Not sure what I would have done, if he/she had. One thing for sure, however... I would not have simply walked off and forgotten about it.
I think that a person's approach to the situation sets the tone. Approach as trying to be helpful, not demanding or overbearing.
Bottom line is that violations should be pointed out and corrected by anybody observing them.
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PV2 Daniel Shipley
Is this something that we can take to their brigade commander if the SM continues on his/her way without fixing the violation? COL Jean (John) F. B.
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COL Jean (John) F. B.
People can certainly report the individual/violations to his/her chain of command.
I would probably try to get a photo of the violation, if possible, to get away from the "he said/she said". Having said that, I would not cause a scene or disturbance.
I would probably try to get a photo of the violation, if possible, to get away from the "he said/she said". Having said that, I would not cause a scene or disturbance.
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LTC Scott O'Neil
I would just mention the infraction in passing, most likely away from everyone and just as a FYI to the individual.
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I would, just to save you from looking like a soup sandwich. But just wait and see when I am wearing my ASU's at a authorized event(as a retiree) wearing the above item, that will turn some heads and someone will be looking up AR 670-1 really fast:
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CSM Charles Hayden Passed 7/29/2025
SSG Jose Garza, several years ago, a retired General Officer friend asked me to wear 'Blues' and be best man in his wedding. I hesitated, he caught it and asked why. I said what about your fuzz face? I must admit, he then chastised me for not knowing that of course he would be clean shaven.
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I disagree with most here. If you are no longer in the Army, you should not be able to make uniform corrections. If you walk up to me and say something about me having my hands in my pockets and you are not in uniform, I will pay no mind to you. You will be wasting your time and leave feeling like an idiot.
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SPC David Willis
Not to mention regs are always changing. An old 1sgt may make a correction to a soldier who is wearing headphones in the post's gym but now its authorized.
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As with any person doing the correcting, it's a matter of a) tact and b) knowing what the current regs are. The regs may be different now than what they were back when they were still in....
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