Posted on Jul 8, 2016
Is it appropriate to confront a higher rank when they are blatantly disregarding regs?
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So last week I was at the chow hall with another girl from my squadron, and we see this SSgt wearing nearly black lipstick across the room. This is very obviously out of regs as makeup is to be conservative and lipstick can not contrast with your skin tone. She was obviously a higher rank than me or the airman I went to chow with, and neither of us said anything even though both of us desperately wanted to. She looked ridiculous. It was so bad that some male airmen at the table next to us noticed it and asked us about the reg. Anyway my question is, is it appropriate to confront a higher rank when they are blatantly disregarding regs?
PS There was a visiting 2 star across the chow hall at the time
PPS Sorry the pictures are so bad. We were far away.
PS There was a visiting 2 star across the chow hall at the time
PPS Sorry the pictures are so bad. We were far away.
Regulation
What Would You Do
Advice
Edited 8 y ago
Posted 8 y ago
Responses: 310
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If they have a blatant disregard then it is likely that your challenge (while correct) would go over like a brick through a window. In this case it is best to address it with one of their peers or your CSM, whether it is an Officer or NCO.
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You should have knife edge handed the fuck out of her and told her to "go un fuck your face!" You prolly could have gotten promoted ON THE SPOT!
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1SG Ernest Stull
I down voted the soldiers method of making 00rthe correction. Could have used it in the 70,early 80,but not no more.
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By using a modicum of tact you should feel free to correct anyone regardless of rank. Just make sure you know the regs before you do it.
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I was in the airport and I saw a female LTC who was really out of the reg her hair was spiked, she had flaming red lipstick, way to much blush, etc. I sat down beside her and in a low and respectful voice introduced myself and informed her that she was out of reg. She says to me "my commander says its up to interpretation" I calmly replied "No Ma'am, it is not up to interpretation, it is the regulation and it clearly states that your hair should be neat and professional not stylish and that your makeup should be natural, and besides that, you are in the airport in uniform in front of all of these people who look up to us, your appearance does not look professional" she proceeds to tell me that she doesn't feel that she has done anything wrong. With that I told her to have a nice day and continued on my way, some people even with the on the spot correction still don't think that they are wrong. I guess I'm going to have to carry around the 670-1 to show proof next time.
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CSM Charles Hayden
MSG (Join to see)Ffor many years I kept ARs 22-5 and 670-1 in close proximity to my person. One PM, the CDR was doing a walk-thru for a parade formation. Several times he did not heed my advice on doing such and such. Finally in exasperation, I said Colonel, 22-5 says to do it this way! He then asked why I hadn't told him what the 'book' said earlier!
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CPL Wilfred Roberge
There was a female E6 SSG who was as dumb as a doorknob in my unit whom got 25 years but had zero military bearing and must have weighed 3 bills at only 5 foot 2. She wore make up with a trowel looked like a clown. It was disgusting that she was in at all to me as a young PV2 when I saw she was allowed her 20.
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1SG Ernest Stull
Sgt. have you seem Mash Maj. Houlihan. Reason I am asking is because the LTC. Was trying to get her freak on. Just saying. You did the right thing but she was out to0 get something.
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Absolutely, with TACT. I however caution against the use of photos of someone you don't know and have no permission to use. If the intent is humiliation, well, there goes tact. Point would have been well received even without them.
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Considering the number of times I was the ranking female enlisted and even senior ranking officers would ask me to "help" a young female Lieutenant (2nd and 1st, but usually 2nd) ; I have no qualms about it (junior ranking assisting a senior ranking) .
This (wearing really dark lipstick, and/or using really dark lip liner) was common not many years ago because of popular culture and fashion. Many female military members were wearing lipstick in this fashion because it was so common in the civilian communities. It was sometime a constant matter, and harder to correct for those in uniform.
Just my buck for coffee from experience; it's better for females to "assist" or correct other females. Just be sure who ever does it already is in FULL and COMPLETE compliance first.
This (wearing really dark lipstick, and/or using really dark lip liner) was common not many years ago because of popular culture and fashion. Many female military members were wearing lipstick in this fashion because it was so common in the civilian communities. It was sometime a constant matter, and harder to correct for those in uniform.
Just my buck for coffee from experience; it's better for females to "assist" or correct other females. Just be sure who ever does it already is in FULL and COMPLETE compliance first.
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CPL Wilfred Roberge
Good point even if I were the same rank I would probably have an E-O complaint from female because I am male trying to correct makeup even if she is wrong.
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CPL Wilfred Roberge
I like that you mention Let females help the females.... I was a Corporal (E4) same RANK but not PAY as an E5 Sergeant and I was clean shaven and I had a FEMALE E5 try to tell me I needed to start "shaving my chest" because I had "chest-hairs sticking out of the top of my tee shirt" UM-NO, There was no REG for that and Two you're not in my chain of command let S-3 handle S-3 probs and you handle S-1!!!!! (I wasn't about to get no "teen wolf thing started" because she saw a few stray hairs.....)
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MSgt Sandra McKinney Dent
CPL Wilfred Roberge - Back in the 1980s when "Tony" McPeak (McSqueek) was the USAF Chief of Staff, he had a thing against visible t-shirts for men, wearing either "work uniforms" or Class B's (open collar short sleeve shirt and pants).
He also had a thing against "visible" body hair too. And since he did not like it, all his "strap hangers" did not like it either. It was NEVER in the regulation, just well known.
He also had a thing against "visible" body hair too. And since he did not like it, all his "strap hangers" did not like it either. It was NEVER in the regulation, just well known.
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CPL Wilfred Roberge
MSgt Sandra McKinney Dent - lol he probably got his name from never going through puberty.... hense was jealous of those with hairy chests..... that's too much....
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SrA Rebecca Jaffee You are to be applauded for your serious desire to say something to this in-your-face scoff-law who was daring someone to say something to her. Kinda like the rogue Army CSM in Hawaii a short time back. While the situation warranted a 'spot correction', in doing so you run the risk of treading on some unsteady ground. You do not necessarily want to become a Christian Martyr for your efforts. I would think no less of you for letting this one slide and concentrate on individuals of lesser rank when your words might make an impression on the offender. Let someone of higher rank deal with the SSgt in your case, at least then she would not be able to smoke the person who corrected her. Someone is bound to trip her up sooner than later.
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CPO Matthew Bigelow
I guess 5hats 5ue difference btwn an Officer and q Senior NCO. As a CPO, if my uniform was jacked up and the Sailors in my office didn't say anything to me and and a fellow Chief or an officer pointed it out to me. I'd have a teaching moment with my Sailors when I got back to the office. Junior enlisted shouldn't be afraid to politely and respectfully point out a uniform discrepancy to a senior.
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CWO2 Richard Rose
Back in the day as a Chief Petty Officer it was my duty to set the example at all times. Be sure you are 100% certain that the senior is out of regs before approaching. It would be advisable to quietly ask the senior if you could speak in private and use tact. I was in a joint billet in DC and a 1st Class Petty Officer step into my cubicle and loudly ask if I was authorized to wear a mustache. I thought I was being very quiet when I told her to go to the MCPON's office and bring me a copy of grooming regulations. My office erupted after she departed. My immediate supervisor, a MAJ, USMC came to my desk and said it was about time she was called on the carpet. I had the grooming regs for all services in my desk. I wouldn't have had a mustache if it were not permitted. Seniors set the example and standards for juniors to follow. The event in my case is pushing on 40 years ago. One the worst butt chewing of my career was as a CDO and I was tasked to drive my C.O. to catch a flight. About the time I got him to the air terminal I noticed that he had failed to put his eagle collar devices on his uniform. I had to contact a MCPO at his destination to meet him with a set of collar devices.
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A friend of mine (an E5) corrected LTC Robert Howard once. His Medal of Honor Ribbion was upside down. He did not tell it across the room but used tact and professionalism. LTC Howard thanked him.
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Yes it is appropriate if done with tact and respect for her rank. However, you better have the regulation memorized and be prepared for her to belittle your knowledge of regulations. With that said I have to say that you taking a picture of her without consent and posting it on a forum is highly unprofessional and disrespectful. Any picture you post on the internet is there forever. She was not given a chance to either defend her choice of lipstick or take it off.
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As long as you are respectful you can make a uniform correction to a higher ranking person. I once made a correction on a 1LT who showed up at a formal dinner had the legs of his dress blue uniform cut above the ankle and was wearing red socks. His excuse was that ita a FA thing. Note this was a Reserve Officer, i was active duty FA NCO, i have never seen anything like this. His 1SG tried to tell me i was wrong in correcting the officer and i informed the 1SG that he was wrong for not correcting him before comming to the event.
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SFC (Join to see)
National guard 13B, 13M, 13R. Red socks at order of ST. Barbaras only. Ive seen them for 19 years but still can't bring myself to wear them.
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