Posted on Aug 4, 2015
CH (MAJ) William Beaver
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Which do you find harder to lead: that disobedient subordinate or the one who is apathetic? What are reasons for your choice? Can you give examples? How do you properly motivate either?
Posted in these groups: Leadership abstract 007 LeadershipDiscipline1 DisciplineCharacter traits Character
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Responses: 15
Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS
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Apathetic. They've already given up. Disobedient means they have the will to fight. They are fighting AGAINST something. We just don't know what yet. Once you know what, you can adjust motivation techniques. With an apathetic troop, they are just riding it out, and your goal is keep the attitude from spreading to others.
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1SG Michael Blount
1SG Michael Blount
>1 y
IMHO, with the disobedient subordinate, you can point out deficiencies and start the paperwork trail to dismiss his/her @$$. The apathetic ones are tougher to dismiss because you need to document EVERY little act and somehow tie that to malingering.
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SCPO David Lockwood
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I would say Apathetic. This person has already made up their mind they will not do anything you tell them. A disobedient you can talk to and work with them. Where as an apathetic person there is no reasoning with them.
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LTC Student
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Disobedient subordinates can be dealt with quickly, either correct your actions or start UCMJ or Chapter paperwork. Apathetic subordinates are a much harder animal to deal with, as they generally know the regulations and skirt right up close to the line without crossing it and so therefore require more effort from their leadership to adjust their actions. I believe that apathetic service members are far more detrimental to an organization than disobediant, because for the most part service members know right from wrong and therefore will police up the disobediance, but apathy can be contagious.
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Is it harder to lead a disobedient subordinate or an apathetic subordinate?
LCDR Deputy Department Head
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At least the apathetic subordinate isn't actively trying to mitigate your efforts to accomplish the mission. Although neither is good, an outright disobedient (and routinely so) Sailor/Soldier/Airman/Marine needs to be dealt with quickly. It becomes contagious and bad for the entire unit.
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>1 y
On the other hand, the disobedient one at least has passion and attitude. It's easier to fix that than apathy, but I really don't care, so don't piss me off... =;
SMSgt Thor Merich
SMSgt Thor Merich
>1 y
Apathetic is more challenging. It requires much more creativeness to get them back in the game. The problem is that the military often does not like creativeness on the part of its NCO's.
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MSG Reid Zohfeld
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I once had a squad of misfits that that different Bn under the same Brigade filled a special team that had various jobs to do
The team would Build special projects to supplying 3400 MREs daily to training FOBs
Some didn’t have a clue what or how to do some tasks
My hands on approach and ability to understand the situation made it simple for me to train them how to do tasks outside their MOS There is one lesson that makes a great leader Never ask a soldier to do anything you can’t do or won’t do This will make your subordinates appreciate the work they are doing as important not a punishment
My team was always short handed and I was always working along side them from Weed eating Training areas to stinging concertina wire Yes this cranky old MSG do work and explaining what and how the project was for
Leaders need to understand their troops in order to provide guidance to them
Again I put in a post that question as such disturbs me thinking that the Senior NCOs are not being trained in simple tasks
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CPL Earl Kochis
CPL Earl Kochis
>1 y
Spoken like a true leader!! If you won’t roll up your sleeves and show your troops you are not too good to do what you ask them you get good results!! You act like your too good to do exspect disobedience!! No one respects someone who won’t climb in the trenches now and then!!
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CW4 Brigade Maintenance Technician
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In my opinion, CH (MAJ) William Beaver, you can eventually change the mindset of a disobedient Soldier that shows that he/she has some heart, but you can't ever provide heart to someone who doesn't already have one.
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1stSgt Sergeant Major/First Sergeant
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I find that apathetic is more stressful on the leader. I once a shitbag recruit who decided to go the "refusal to train" route and this guy really stuck with it. Every time a Drill Instructor would walk by, he would attempt to draw attention to himself and then just sit there and ignore everyone around him. I ended up putting him in my office so some new DI would not lose his mind on him. No use wasting a good career for some shitbag.
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SPC Joshua Heath
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The apathetic soldier is much more difficult, though the disobedient can easily become the apathetic. Disobedience can arise from many sources, perhaps its a cultural conflict, a personality conflict, or an issue of rank not being equal to the skill a person possesses. These subordinates can be dealt with easier, once you discover why they are being disobedient. It may be that they need to be handled in a different way than others. A good leader can sense a disconnect between their leadership style and a subordinates style. Finding a way to work with those we do not connect with is often difficult, but possible.

An apathetic subordinate, though? This person is harder to crack. If you want them to become motivated, you'll have to discover why they are apathetic. This can be difficult to determine. Once you do though, it might even then be difficult to motivate that person because they've chosen to be apathetic, even if they don't realize it.
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1SG Military Police
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Edited >1 y ago
Apathetic subordinates are the real challenge. The disobedient ones are easier because you can find out what the issue is...is it fixable or are they actively, intentionally trying to find the exit door? If so, provide them with quality customer service and everyone's a winner. Apathetic subordinates can be burnt out or opportunists. The burn outs can be rehabilitated (I had two E-6s that had been thrown into a PSG slot for a year with no mentorship, the new 1SG placed them under me to rebuild their confidence). The apathy of the opportunist subordinate is particularly challenging. Counseling and documentation is key. Set the expectation, hold them to the standard, and hammer them if they refuse to conform. You owe it to everyone else in the unit to either cure the cancer or remove it.
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SSgt Alex Robinson
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Apathy is far worse.
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