Posted on Mar 29, 2016
Is it ok to interrupt a meaningful event with the National Anthem while in a foreign country?
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I am sure many of you have seen the video of the soldier in the Middle East playing the Star Spangled Banner during a time of call to prayer. I am sure that some feel this is perfectly fine, but to me, this is flat disrespectful. How would the American public react if someone did this during the National Anthem? I'm sure that plenty of people will disagree with me on this, but that is why we serve
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 12
It's extraordinarily disrespectful, but we've somehow elevated 'Muricuh! (nationalism) to virtue status....
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1LT William Clardy
Au contraire, SFC Michael Hasbun and Maj Mike Sciales. Both of you are throwing out the drinking water with toilet water based upon the premise that there's shit in the toilet water, so all water must be bad.
Our willingness to align ourselves with a tribe, and to align tribes into a nation, is a survival trait because that defines the scope of our sense of "the common good". "We are friends of liberty everywhere, but guardians only of our own" is meaningless outside a sense of national identity. Or are one of you going to accuse Tommy J. of being an "ultra-nationalist"?
In reality, this character's behavior reflects a lack of common courtesy more than any inherent evil in the idea of national identity -- he probably also wouldn't hesitate to crank up the volume on his TV to drown out somebody talking on the telephone.
Lastly, Maj Mike Sciales, soldiers are not diplomats, soldiers have no duty (or business) trying to export democracy unless it is as part of some national policy for destabilizing a region. Soldiers are the brute force used to "persuade" others, not the display model for "What's Right With America" -- although it still behooves soldiers to conduct themselves civilly when they aren't being required to break things and hurt people.
Our willingness to align ourselves with a tribe, and to align tribes into a nation, is a survival trait because that defines the scope of our sense of "the common good". "We are friends of liberty everywhere, but guardians only of our own" is meaningless outside a sense of national identity. Or are one of you going to accuse Tommy J. of being an "ultra-nationalist"?
In reality, this character's behavior reflects a lack of common courtesy more than any inherent evil in the idea of national identity -- he probably also wouldn't hesitate to crank up the volume on his TV to drown out somebody talking on the telephone.
Lastly, Maj Mike Sciales, soldiers are not diplomats, soldiers have no duty (or business) trying to export democracy unless it is as part of some national policy for destabilizing a region. Soldiers are the brute force used to "persuade" others, not the display model for "What's Right With America" -- although it still behooves soldiers to conduct themselves civilly when they aren't being required to break things and hurt people.
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Maj Mike Sciales
1LT William Clardy - I must take exception to your perception that soldiers are not diplomats. I was on active duty in the Middle East until summer, 2003. Throughout my career (14 years total overseas) I saw too many examples of military folks being just that. Whether a Security Forces airman playing soccer with some kids in Afghanistan, or a Navy Reservist SeeBee on a TDY building a school near a joint base in Honduras, or a soldier delivering clothing to an orphanage in S. Korea. Most members are young people and are pretty caring generally. I've seen whole deployed units give up their days off to work on an orphanage. I knew several folks in the UK who took leave and paid their own way to deliver medicines and other supplies, plus vehicles to Romanian orphanages in 1990. I won't even mention when medical units go out and provide incredible medical services to the most desperate people. This is nothing new. This is a part of the American story. GIs always shared their rations with little kids. They grow up to be staunch supporters of democracy. The Berlin Airlift - a crew chief put candy into handkerchief parachutes and dropped candy on kids in Berlin. Those kids never forget -- that kind of behavior projects democracy and led to leaders open to reunification.
We can demonstrate our might, I'd certainly hope so, we spend so much more on it then our nearest competitors. We have to maintain the moral high ground at all times, just the price of being the best.
Don't kid yourself, people everywhere know all about us. They all watch TV. They know typical Americans: the Kardashians, the Real Housewives of Wherever, Judge Judy, Jerry Springer, Fox News.
Happily, most of them know those folks aren't us, so when they get a chance to meet some Joe from Iowa and find out just how much they are like us, well, that's diplomacy at it's best.
We can demonstrate our might, I'd certainly hope so, we spend so much more on it then our nearest competitors. We have to maintain the moral high ground at all times, just the price of being the best.
Don't kid yourself, people everywhere know all about us. They all watch TV. They know typical Americans: the Kardashians, the Real Housewives of Wherever, Judge Judy, Jerry Springer, Fox News.
Happily, most of them know those folks aren't us, so when they get a chance to meet some Joe from Iowa and find out just how much they are like us, well, that's diplomacy at it's best.
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SFC Michael Hasbun
1LT William Clardy - It is all bad. Until we identify with the entirety of our species as "tribe", it will always be a divisive factor.
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1LT William Clardy
SFC Michael Hasbun, sorry but I won't join you in wanting to sing "Kumbayah" with the whole world. I prefer to prioritize who I will put how much effort into saving by how closely their interests align with mine. I realize that's a self-centered approach, but it's also a brutally pragmatic one which can be used to avoid spreading yourself too thin.
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I don't think it's a particularly good idea, no. Nor do I think it wins any hearts and minds.
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SCPO (Join to see)
I fully agree CSM. These are the types of things that make people dislike us even more than they already do.
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Well first off - excellent cultural awareness and sensitivity. That is a great trait and you are to be commended. However, understand that prayer call is just that -- think Church bells tolling. It isn't a National Anthem and my experience is nobody much notices because you are either going to pray or you won't and you know what time prayer is because you read the paper or set your watch or iPhones. Having said that, the P.A. person or whoever was in charge of playing the National Anthem ought to display a half a lick of sense and read those same publicly posted prayer times and plan accordingly 5 minutes before is plenty of time deconfliction. Unless that person just wants to be contentious and expose his or her command staff to some unwelcome publicity. If I had to answer the mail on that question I can assure you somebody would come to understand fully what a lapse in judgment that decision was.
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SCPO (Join to see)
Very well said Major and I appreciate your response. The video in question was not someone playing the National Anthem over a P.A., but an individual in shorts and a T-shirt playing it on a guitar. I can understand if it were something similar to the Navy holding morning colors, but to me this was something done to intentionally display "American Dominance" I guess you could call it.
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Maj Mike Sciales
I'd also add my constant observation over the last 16 years in that region that the millennials there are just as interested in progress and far more secular than previous generations. You folks need to welcome them in - that's how you win hearts and minds - not by blaring an anthem. The North Koreans do that blaring and posturing thing all the time and we've had less then 10 soldiers defect since 1953. A pointless exercise in the 21st Century.
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Maj Mike Sciales
Just for clarity: The member is a jackass. Our forces are shrinking so we can cull out the clearly stupid ones. This is an easy admin call. I'd have him gone within 20 days of actually watching that video because we don't need stupid.
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SCPO (Join to see)
I found another link with the video and apparently it is at least 4 years old, as some of the comments are from the summer of 2012. Not that it changes my view on it, nor does it make it right.
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