Is it possible for a SM with a P2 profile to hold the position of 1SG or CSM?
1SG
CSM
Profiles
Ultimately this is not a disqualifier but as with anything in the military. Various people have bias and/or it's your level of competitiveness as a whole. A leader is not determined by physical fitness; however, this profession does require some level of fitness.
My personal opinion, any leader who takes care of me I will put that leader on my back if I had too. As long as I know they would do the same for me and are capable of fighting through whatever pain or injury in a combat situation. Heart is much more of a indication of combat function than knocking out 90+ push ups. I can care less about that persons profile as long as it didn't affect their work/duty performance. Lead Me, Follow Me, or Get the HECK OUT OF MY WAY (General Patton).
SFC Grudzinski,
I believe that the wounded warriors that choose to stay in should be put in leadership positions. When you have someone that is missing an arm doing push-ups and pull-ups, its motivating. They also show that they have real heart and determination because they did not quit when they could have. Great point!
SSG Ryan
SSG Greer, good question. I expected to see a
lot more debate on this. There are two popular trains of thought on this. What’s
the P2 for? Is it for something that would limit your physical abilities and
prevent you from taking all required events on the APFT, PU/SU/ 2 Mile Run? The hard line school of thought is usually
driven by the “Lead by Example or Lead from the Front” attitude. If you are one
who truly embraces this then the simple answer is NO, an individual who can’t
meet all the standards that their Troops are expected to meet should not be in
a 1SG, CSM, or of even PLT SGT or Squad Leader Position. I’ve worked with a few
NCOs throughout my career who, when they were put on permanent profile, dropped
their retirement packet because they truly embraced this and loved their job
and decided if they couldn’t be out there running, rucking, and jumping with
their Troops then it was time for them to get out so an NCO that could do all
these things had an opportunity to move up.
The other side of that is looking at the “Whole Soldier”. Just
because a Troop has a profile that prevents them from being able to do certain
physical activities does not mean they can’t be an effective Leader. Just the
opposite, they could actually serve as an example to younger Troops who are
injured or on profile thereby giving them hope that they could make it to that
level. Another argument I have heard to support this is the reason for the
profile, did the Troop get injured in the line of duty, during a training
event, was it a combat injury? If so, then why should the Troop not be allowed
to serve in a Leadership position after all they may have been out there “Leading
from the Front and Leading by Example” and in the process of doing this they
were injured to such an extent that they now are on a permanent profile.
I have met great NCOs throughout my career who have been on
permanent profiles; I have met mediocre Leaders who were in great physical condition
so pick your opinion. The only thing I would ask is that you fully embrace it.
If you choose the Lead by Example side of this and you are ever put on
permanent profile then step aside so another NCO who can Lead by Example has
the opportunity to fill that Leadership position. Sorry for the length of the
post but this has always been one of my favorite debates.
JDH
SSG Greer,
After 10+ years of war (and 2-3 decades in uniform) I think half the 1SGs and CSMs I know have a P2. I have been very lucky since I am in the same age range as most of these gentlemen but haven't broken anything badly enough to need a permanent profile yet. It's hell getting old! :)
No one said you did. It was a hypothetical concerning a mythical "pristine" 1SG/CSM.
Sure why couldn't this be possible. Does the profile inhibit
the SM from performing their job? You can have a P2 for glasses. What you need
to look at is not the P@ itself, but what are the restrictions of the profile.
Then a call can be made based upon the physical qualifications of the job.
He or she is performing within the limits of their profile does that make them any lesser of a Soldier? By the way, try the walk within standards. My troops were complaining about someone walking so I challenged them all to walk the 2 1/2 miles within time, after they finished, not one of of them complained about someone walking again.
FYI
DA PAM 611-21
Physical demands rating and qualifications for initial award
of MOS. (Key word initial award of MOS)
Interpreter/Translator must possess the following
qualifications.
(1) A physical demands rating of medium.
(2) A physical profile of 222221.
From MOS 11B Skill level 1: (Physical Quals of the MOS)
1. Frequently visually identifies vehicles,
equipment, and individuals at long distances.
2. Occasionally raises and carries 160 pounds
person on back.
3. Frequently performs all other tasks while
carrying a minimum of 65 pounds, evenly
distributed over entire body.
4. Frequently digs, lifts, and shovels 21 pounds
scoops of dirt in bent, stooped or kneeling
position.
5. Must be able to hear oral commands in outdoor
area from distances up to 50 meters.
6. Frequently walks, runs, crawls, and climbs
over varying terrain for a distance of up to 25
miles.
7. Frequently runs for short distances.
8. Occasionally walks slowly for 2 hours out of 6
while carrying 26 pounds.
9. Frequently lifts 89 pounds 5 feet.
10. Frequently lowers 58 pounds 3 feet.
11. Frequently gives oral commands in outside
area at distances up to 50 meters.
12. Frequently lifts and lowers 32 pounds bags
shoulder high.
13. Frequently throws 1 pound object 40 meters.
14. Frequently lifts 45 pounds waist high.
15. Occasionally climbs a rope a distance of up
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