Posted on Sep 19, 2015
SrA Electrical Power Production Journeyman
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So, this girl is 19, 4 months TIS and made Tech. Sgt (E-6) already. Typo? Misprint? Or horrible lapse in judgement?

Has anyone else heard about this?

http://www.usafband.af.mil/news/story.asp?id=123449378
Posted in these groups: Star PromotionsD48af888 AirmenImages Military Career
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Responses: 414
CPT Jack Durish
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I'm not sure I object. The military has a long tradition of bestowing rank to attract people with "special talents", for example doctors and lawyers are instant captains. At least they didn't hand this young lady a commission. To be fair I was an E5 after just 5 months when I became an officer candidate. That's just one stripe below hers. Now, let's consider if her "special talent" (obviously no medical or legal professional) warrants special consideration. Imagine that she had continued her pursuit of a civilian career in singing. There's little doubt that she would have attained success far beyond the pay grade of an E6 (which, by the way, isn't that great until it's been bumped up with some time in grade/service). Instead, her talents are being used to add value to the service, attracting recruits, garnering public support, and raising morale. Not a bad bargain for the Air Force at what they're paying her. They would have to pay a civilian a helluva lot more to obtain comparable services. Thus, I'm not offended...
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PO2 Skip Kirkwood
PO2 Skip Kirkwood
>1 y
Recall what happened in WWII - the Navy directly appointed craftsmen and technicians to whatever rank would entice their skills to join the Seabees. Master equipment operators were appointed EOC, and higher, to fill the needs of the service.
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Maj Security Forces
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The Air Force Band has it's own promotion criteria.

"...5.4.1. Due to the highly specialized nature of positions in the USAF Band, it conducts a separate promotion process based on internal unit vacancies. Promotion to TSgt is effective upon the day the member first reports for duty with The USAF Band and requires the approval of the promotion authority or its designated representative. There are no TIS or TIG requirements..."

The complete promition criteria is spelled out in this document pages 57 - 62:

http://static.e-publishing.af.mil/production/1/af_a1/publication/afi36-2502/afi36-2502.pdf
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SSG Ray Petersen
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Personally, this is unacceptable. Promotion is earned not given regardless of where you are.
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LTC Joseph Gross
LTC Joseph Gross
>1 y
And it is sometimes earned by having a special skill that others don't have. Sometimes it is earned because you convinced someone to enlist with you. That program allowed me to enlist as an E-2! It allows some Soldiers with JROTC to enlist as an E-3, that would be my son. And it also allows Soldiers to enlist as an E-4 simply because they got a degree. How is any of this right but allowing someone with a skill impossible to train to enlist as an E-6? I'll also refer back to the old Stripes for Skills programs that allowed people with certain language skills to enlist as an E-5.

I also know more than one doctor that entered as a COL. Doesn't seem fair does it?
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TSgt Flight Chief
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I pick the wrong AFSC. I had to study, test and have TIG/TIS to even qualify for E-6. SMH......
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SGT Curtis Earl
SGT Curtis Earl
>1 y
Then you should have gone to college and gotten a degree in music... Masters degree. A doctorate, even.
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TSgt Flight Chief
TSgt (Join to see)
>1 y
SGT Curtis Earl - true but I'm more of a underwater basket weaving guy myself lol /s
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SSgt Donnavon Smith
SSgt Donnavon Smith
>1 y
This 19 year old has a Master's Degree? SGT Curtis Earl
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SMSgt Bob Greene
SMSgt Bob Greene
>1 y
As an AF regional band member, I too had to study and have TIG/TIS like every other AFSC to earn E-6 -- which I did after 10 years TIS, not right out of basic like AF premier band musicians. No envy here, just stating facts. If a 19-year old has the talent to make a premier band, good on her!
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SGT Paul Nichols
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Stop your belly aching maybe she is just good at what she does :)
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CPO Travis Holley
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Edited >1 y ago
Think about the fact that, "4 months TIS" and she is on stage, with a microphone in her hand, singing to civilians. Probably in another country or at a major brass level event. I would be sitting in front of an Admiral babbling incoherently about why I should keep my anchor if I had put an Engine Mechanic with "4 months TIS" in charge of an inspection of an aircraft engine without supervision right before an airstrike on foreign soil. Just a little reminder that the Rank for Civilian experience program is a valid program. This woman has probably been in intense voice training since she started walking. If she was trusted and allowed to be on that stage, then there is definitely a damn good reason they promoted her to E6 upon joining
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Cpl Isaac Park
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Well. An E6 in one occupational field has different responsibilities than an E6 in another field. I firmly believe that rank is handed out accordingly to the best of the commands knowledge of the individual's capability. That being said, the command knows only what the individual chooses to show. What I'm trying to say is: a 19 year old can do the responsibilities of an E6 in the band, I doubt she could perform the responsibilities of an E6 in whatever is the air force's equivalent to the infantry. Even though E6s of different occupations shoulder different weights of burden doesn't mean they deserve any less respect based on their occupation. Shit. I'm happy for her. She's probably really loving the air force and that's probably the kind of person that the military needs. Those who love it because they were well received instead of the bitter angry ones that gave more than their all and received less than gratitude from their superiors.
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SPC Signals Intelligence Analyst
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Did we really have to put up a picture of her? I mean its one thing to talk about the idea of someone being promoted too quickly, but when you put her picture up then you are talking about her.
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Col Jeffrey Swegel
Col Jeffrey Swegel
>1 y
Again....she wasn't promoted "too quickly", members of the services' premier bands are ALL inducted at this rank.
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MSG Nathan Sommers
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I love reading the vacuous comments on this thread. The accelerated promotion system is standard for the DC premiere military bands. All of them. Hell, the President's Own Marine Corps band doesn't even go to basic training. The military wants superior musicians, especially in the DC area, that are trained. Most have their undergrad degrees already, and many have masters and doctoral degrees. The military doesn't have to pay to train them, and they can recruit the best talent. These musicians should be officers, with the level of skill and training they bring. Unfortunately the military can't afford to pay them at the officer grade. I served for 26 yrs proudly, and retired as an E-8 from the U.S. Army Chorus. I spent 8 yrs in the Air Force Band in DC as well. Fabulous musicians and airmen. Whiners and crybabies about how "unfair" the system is should go home.
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Col Group Commander
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This is sad. This woman was promoted to a pay grade as an incentive. Not unlike other incentives that we all sign up for at one time or another. She will likely never carry a weapon in combat, fix a plane, or be called upon to risk her life on the battlefield. She will likely never be a supervisor, but likely will be a mentor. She will work as a representative of the Air Force in the Band until she retires or tires. Do not let her incentive be your disincentive. I rose up through the ranks (a lot of them) and would never presume to feel as an equal to an infantryman, combat engineer, special operations, or the myriad of other AFSC's or MOS's no matter what rank I possess. Those were not my jobs. I am still no better than any airman, soldier, or sailor around me. Currently, I am enjoying being the best Colonel I can be. I hope everyone of you feel like you are trying to be the best too. Earn it or get it, but you better be proud of it , because, you deserve it!
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Col Group Commander
Col (Join to see)
>1 y
If she was in their career field, I would certainly understand that. I will pose a medical example that I experienced. I became a MSC officer and was given the rank of 2Lt. I had experience managing a small dental office. An associate became a MSC around the same time. He was given the rank of Lt Colonel. He had experience running a major metropolitan hospital for 14 years and held a Master's Degree specializing in healthcare administration. The Airman in question has the requisite skill for her job already. In both instances, the Air Force did not spend a bunch of money and time getting these two Airmen up to the required skill level. They came in fully prepared. As a matter of fact, neither of their career fields has CFETP's or skill level testing / training. In both cases, they were given a "pay-grade" that took their skill sets into account and gave them a paycheck. Neither of them should make any of us feel bad about our situations / pay grades / time in uniform. An aircraft mechanic and a stage performer / singer are not in the same AFSC. Apples and oranges. I know that my argument will not sway a person bent on being disagreeable. For those I will say "learn to sing and apply to the Air Force Band", "I hear they have great promotion incentives".
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Maj Joseph Osborne
Maj Joseph Osborne
>1 y
I do understand where you're coming from with that example. However, there's a world of difference between the need for competent and qualified medical personnel and the need for competent and qualified singers/performers. As I stated elsewhere in this forum, the need for native AF bands (as opposed to USO/other organizations performing) is spurious at best. I can see a need for a HAF level band in DC to support the functions there, but we'd be better served, save the AF money, and have more interest in seeing acts supported by non military organizations such as the USO. I've deployed about 8 times in the last 15 years for a total of a little over three years in the AFCENT AOR. I've seen some grudging interest in AF Bands/Tops in Blue, but enthusiastic interest in USO supported groups. Maybe my views are skewed, but I'm coming from a predisposed notion that these bands aren't worth what we put into them. Thanks.
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Col Group Commander
Col (Join to see)
>1 y
That would be an excellent topic for a different discussion. "Should we support the AF Bands in a climate of cut-backs and working with less?" Maj Osborne, if you start that discussion, I am in agreement with you. Many times, working with less money puts airmen at risk. As a senior leader, it is my job to manage that risk. Another excellent topic would be "In your opinion, where could the military save money?" Frivolous items that add no value to the mission would be tops on my list. My pet peeve is Wing level ceremonies that can and should be held at the Group or Squadron level. I like presenting my airmen with awards and decorations: especially when the presentation is held among their peers. But, I digress. I find that having these discussions brings better clarity to the issues that get under our skin.
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A1C Melissa Jackson
A1C Melissa Jackson
>1 y
Maj Joseph Osborne - I agree with you enthusiastically. If we ARE going to have an AF band, or AF choir- why not draw the talent from within the standing force that can continue to turn wrenches, guard flight lines, or heal the wounded? Band or choir (like in junior high or high school) are extra-curricular activities. We don't need to be recruiting members exclusively for their ability to perform anything but AF duties. If they can sing too- well then, whistle while you WORK your way to Tsgt.
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