Is it realistic to believe that a teacher could effectively defend against an active shooter, using an AR-15, armed with only a handgun?

As one who spent some eighteen years in the classroom after leaving the Army I believe the answer to the original question is arming teachers is a more realistic deterrent than having them and their students cower under their desks in a classroom listening to gunshots down the hall coming toward them and praying (or hoping lest someone be offended) the one Resource Officer in the school is doing his job if he isn't already dead or cowering somewhere in fear (as happened at Parkland).

I'm not saying a teacher should go "High Noon" and step out in the hallway, but if he or she is trained to take up a good protected position covering the door when the crazy busts through the door the element of surprise is on the teacher's side. Open up and fire until you hear the click. Six or how many rounds center of mass should do the trick. They might not kill the kook, but he's sure going to be the sickest guy in the ER. And who knows? It might just deter or stop further killing.

It used to frustrate the stew out of me when we'd get these safety briefings about what we were to do in the event of a shooting after Columbine. None of the stuff was pro-ative telling the poodles to roll over and expose their stomachs in hopes the wolf will stop.

No, I had many colleagues it would make me shudder to think of being armed. But there are at least a few in every school who would make a difference if given the chance.

Training, training, and more training. The teachers in question would have to practice each active shooter scenario thousands and thousands of times before she or he became effective. This is what happens in martial arts or any other form of defense. It can't be learned in an hour. It requires muscle memory. Muscle memory takes a lot of repetition.

Obviously if the perp had an AR-15, distance would matter; were the defenders close or were they a hundred yards away? At 100 yards, the AR-15 would have the advantage. From 30 feet, not so much. Each scenario would be different. Again, training times thousands. Just give a teacher a pistol? Not a good idea. Can well trained people defend against these things? Remember Texas? A security guard took out two active shooters. Not every situation is going to work out perfectly. But in my humble view, the worst case would be for only the perp to be armed. We need to wake up. Bad guys with weapons and unarmed good guys spells disaster.

In my opinion, NO. It is not realistic to believe that a teacher could effectively defend against an active shooter, using an AR-15, armed with only a handgun? I really don't know the solution to these horrific and fatal acts in our schools. However; I do think we need to tighten security with armed guards, cameras and metal detectors. If we studied these criminals like the rats they are we may find a connection, but it will not solve the problem.

Amy well trained armed person , can shoot straighter and hit center of mass , faster than a spray and pray shooter

Simple answer: Fight with what you have, check the results. If a deranged kid shows up at a classroom door, and all the teacher has is a side arm, that's what he is going to fight with. NOT fighting is a sure lose, fighting at least has a chance. Not going to hunt him down, but going to set up an ambush and protect the students.
Further corrupt the mix, and give that handgun to a poorly trained inexperienced (non-combat experienced) left-leaning teacher, and it is a toss up as to whom is the weaker factor. Against a solid Infantry vet with a couple of tours, the assailant wouldn't stand a chance no matter what he brought to the door.

L/Cpl,
If you cannot go against a shooter with an AR using a 45, you have missed something in your training. Consider the MOUT environment of a school building. There are ways one person can hunt the hunter and win being on the inside to begin with. Now if a door does not lock, the teacher has the students in a corner protected, door comes open and AR draws up, BAM BAM BAM BAM BAM BAM BAM, Teacher is shooting well aimed shots becuase trained, practiced, and oh, damn, veteran of Fallujah.

Arming teachers is a band aid. Securing schools and looking hard at students, and former students to see if they fit a profile is what needs to be done.

It is my belief that arming teachers is an indication of how far our countries morale fiber has fallen. Why arm the parties that are part of the problem. We all know that the teachers have their pets. That favoritism is shown when they deal with the well to do, the jocks, and the good looking. I can tell you from personal experience that this is true. When I was in high school I stood 4'6" and weighed 111 pounds. Plus I came from a poor family. While all those on the elite list tormented me daily the teachers turned a blind eye. Of course because of my size I became a target for the bullies. Most of whom were the school athletes. Again nobody saw anything even though it happened right in front of the teachers and school administrators. My father showed me a couple of things to help me defend myself. So guess what happened when I hurt of couple of the bullies for picking on me I'm the one who got expelled. From what I've read about these recent school shootings it sounds like the same atmosphere as I went through. It is also my feeling that we need to get the government and left wingers out of our schools. They allow people to go into the schools and teach that if the parents discipline their children it is abuse. So the parents get arrested for assault. There is a difference between discipline and abuse. However, you can't convince these left wing nuts of that. And then their comes the separation of church and state. Don't get me wrong I believe their should be a separation. However, raising our children without the parameters of right and wrong has led to most of the current problems in our schools. What happened to the days when the threat of going to the principals office was enough to strike terror in an elementary schools students. What happened to strict conformance to a dress a code. Most of the girls in our high schools dress like a bunch of street walkers or porn stars. And the boys well lets just say that I feel there is no hope for them. And last but not least is our courts. Oh, what a joke. The rulings concerning our youth is for the most part a joke. Why can't middle and high school age people be held responsible for their actions? This slapping their hands and slapping their hands just doesn't make sense. As a matter of fact they actually laugh at this so called punishment. Why can't the photos of these problem children be posted after their second offense. So everyone will know what kind of people they are. We all must remember that to reward bad behavior our government, courts, parents, school administrators and teachers, law enforcement personnel, and child protective services entities reward our youth only encourages them to do wrong.

Yes

Not much range inside and sniper nests are unsightly.

Hell to the yes. With proper training and the element of surprise this is absolutely a possibility. The key word here is proper training. Know your firearm, know its limitations, know your own abilities, and pick a spot.

She only has to hit him once

The teachers job would not be to seek out and engage the shooter....Rather to continue to stay in the classroom and use the pistol to protect the children if the need arises. Now a lot of former soldiers are teachers in local schools(near Ft. Bragg) and some of them are more than capable of engaging targets with a pistol....You don't have to go face to face....But you could ambush the bastard.

Asking teachers to be armed & take defensive handgun training is like asking your plumber to fix your car's transmission. It just does not really work unless the individual has past COMBAT military training and served in a MOS that constantly honed their skills to take on active shooters. There are so many retired cops and retired Soldiers & Marines that could fill the role of armed security protecting our most precious countries resource, Our children. This would not only make the schools safer, but would free up cops to do what they are supposed to be doing which is fighting crime. It all comes down to money. School districts would rather have one cop at the school then pay 2 or 3 armed security guards and save money. This is an absolute disgrace, considering so many have already died senselessly. Shame on all the politicians and school administrators for allowing this and face lawsuits rather than protect our kids. So the answer is it is not realistic. Put extreme pressure on the politicians and the school boards or keep filling body bags for the innocent children. Also, it is not a gun problem as much as it is a mental health epidemic, and you can blame doctors and big pharma for that. Many of these shooters all have one thing in common. They were either on or recently stopped taking psychotropic drugs prescribed by a doctor for depression or related mental issues.

My opinion is that most teachers have no business playing security because I believe it will not work if actually called upon. If they really care about their students there will be hesitation when confronting a student and if you hesitate, you are dead. Also, if they do actually respond their teaching career is over. And then there is the potential for a teacher to be breaking up a fight and losing their sidearm to one of the hormonal students and that may not end well. If we really think we need security at schools then how about using trained professionals and not trained teachers who moonlight as security.


Adding a bit. I have been through the range of firearms classes (military, armed security, CCP) and the last two are not comparable to the first. I am not sure a teacher with a CCP is a good thing to rely on if the desire is to minimize colateral damage other than just a potential deterent.

I see any response to a given situation has to be looked at with 'ODDS of Success' (OOS) in mind.

Scenario 1: Hallway, well lit, 200' feet long. Threat at one end with AR-15, and teacher at the other end with 9 mm. ODDS OF SUCCESS (OOS): 2% on a very, very good day. OUTCOME: Gunman continues rampage, teacher down.

Scenario 2: Hallway, well lit, Threat (from above) 20' away from teacher (from above)... OOS: 30% on a pretty good day. OUTCOME: Both go down. Gunman stopped.

Scenario 3: Teacher in a classroom behind a heavy wooden door with 9 mm. Gunman kicking and shooting at the lock with his AR-15 breeches the classroom. Depending on the teacher.... OOS is pretty high. OUTCOME: Gunman down, Teacher OK.

Scenario 4 (most realistic) : Gunman with AR-15 in school with 20 teachers armed with 9 MM. OOS - pretty darned high. OUTCOME: Gunman DOWN, Teachers lose 1.

Scenario 5: Gunman with AR-15 ANYWHERE in the school, NO teachers ARMED. OOS: 0%. Mass Casualties. Status quo for America today.

Where is the logic?! WHY does Scenario 5 with the LEAST amount of OOS reflect the SOP in our country?!

Based on Past incidents I’m going to say yes! Past incidents that when the shooter saw a defender with a gun they ran off....some shooting them self. The question still remains WHICH teachers should be armed. Here in TX I know a majority of them are already licensed...cut in 3/4 of those that ACTUALLY go shoot on their off time. I’m for it but it needs to have strong guidelines

YES!

It is a guarantee that a rifle will beat a rock. An unarmed teacher certainly has less chance than an armed one. I would have to say that it would depend almost entirely upon the shooter and the teacher. Thank goodness these active shooters have zero training. I believe it more than possible for someone with training to take out someone with a semi automatic rifle. My rifle and I know that what counts in war is not the rounds we fire, the noise of our burst, nor the smoke we make. We know that it is the hits that count. Just substitute weapon for rifle. A calm, deliberate, accurate individual armed with a decent sidearm should have a very decent chance to take out a shooter who is jacked up and skittish. Thus the old saying: the secret is to keep your wits while those around you are losing theirs.

Agree with many previous comments. Yes, I think it’s possible and realistic that an armed teacher can stop a suspect with an AR-15. Given the opportunity, a prepared teacher with a hand gun can drop a bad guy quickly. I don’t even believe there is a law in the land that would convict a teacher for shooting a bad guy in the back. If the bad guy is carrying an AR-15, the threat is there. The objective is to save the lives of others. Is arming the teachers the answer? I don’t don’t. However, if it were me, I’d rather have the availability to shoot back rather than do nothing. I’d rather be tried by 12 than carried by 6. Of course there’s going to be fear and panic. The only person that never showed fear or panic was Clint Eastwood. That’s not realistic. What has changed in this country,(agin), is “WE”. As a society, WE have created a MONSTER. I have been raised aroun guns since the age of 10. 21 years in the military handling guns and have been carrying a handgun on my 6 for 10 years. Never had a problem and hope I never do. I am, however, secure in the knowledge that I have the ability to return fire if needed. I would also recommend to ANY teacher in school they may be carrying during school to TRAIN TRAIN TRAIN. All the training in the world may not make you a winner but, the life you save, may be your own.

I see Your point