Posted on Sep 11, 2018
Is somebody higher up in your chain of command allowed to tell you what you should support or not support?
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I overheard a higher ranking NCO tell a lower enlisted soldier that he needed to take his Nike running shoes off and never let him catch him wearing Nike again. I’m curious as to whether or not he’s allowed to tell him that. I know as service members we really can’t involve ourselves in any political matter but isn’t this going too far? Just curious. Any thoughts?
Ethics
Professionalism
NCOs
Posted 7 y ago
Responses: 36
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Political matters are suppose to stay out of day to day talk with subordinates. Issues of the brand of shoes or other clothes is another area to stay away from unless it is derogatory in nature.
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No. He's not. Not only is that an unlawful order, that NCO is clearly being politically biased. So he is wrong and wrong again. I would take that up my chain of command.
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SSG (Join to see)
Roger that. I don’t know them or what the situation was about. I just overheard that bit.
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I say that NCO should Shut the hell up. Who are you to tell a junior what he and can't wear? I'f they are in the regs what thell does it matter. Get a frigging life.
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Unless the Nike shoes were out of uniform requirements, the NCO was out of line.
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good lawd, this is sure whiney. in the early 80 our PT uniform was whatever you were wearing, as long as you were there before Top came out the door.
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I would have been more tactful, "Soldier are you aware of the anti-police stance Nike is taking?" Then I would have said, "It may be just me, but I really dislike companies rooting against the police and our National Anthem. I really, really hate it". I would be staring at his shoes the whole time.
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LTJG Richard Bruce
Off base/ship means away from any connection to the military. When I was young, one could go away and howl at the moon doing stupid stuff and no one would ever find out. Perhaps in today's "social media" world, there is no separation from the military. Also in the world of sea lawyers, senior NCO/PO's and officers need to be careful not to hurt their own careers by being politically correct on "attitude corrective active".
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PO2 Bill Reardon
LTJG Richard Bruce I’ll give you the shirt but not the Nike’s there is no issue here
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SSG (Join to see)
How is wearing the Nikes being aware of the controversy shoving an opinion down some one’s throat? So are we supposed to just not wear them because of what’s going on with Nike and Kaepernick? Is that what you’re implying? I’m a huge fan of Nike and can care less how anybody feels about them. It’s not against regulations so therefore I will continue buying and wearing Nike. I’m not trying to persuade anybody to do the same. That would be forcing my opinion on someone. LTJG Richard Bruce
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I think he may be in violation the Department of Defense Directive 1344.10 (DoDD 1344.10), Political Activities by Members of the Armed Forces, and the spirit and intent of that directive is effectively the same as that of the Hatch Act for Federal civil servants. They can have any political affluence within the ranks. If a service member wants to engage in political activities, then it must be off duty and off base.
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Um, the title question asks about the right of a superior to dictate a subordinates support for something in some sort of situation. The description then provides to a more detailed description involving an article of clothing being worn somewhere at some time with some intent. A proper answer relies on much more specificity than provided here. The situation was "overheard" and may not have been the complete conversation.
So to provide an opinion on the situation requires a little more information about the situation. Did the "correction" occur while the Soldier was in the ASU or in a PT uniform? What was the uniform for the function during which the Nike's were being worn? On duty? Off duty?
So to provide an opinion on the situation requires a little more information about the situation. Did the "correction" occur while the Soldier was in the ASU or in a PT uniform? What was the uniform for the function during which the Nike's were being worn? On duty? Off duty?
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SSG (Join to see)
A1C Doug Towsley I agree but sneakers should not even be an issue. This crap is getting out of hand.
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CPT Jim Schwebach
SSG (Join to see) - Okay, if the Soldier was getting reamed for wearing Nikes for PT(and there was no specification for the type of shoe for that formation) then the senior NCO was way out of line. He needs to understand that he cannot prohibit wear of any item based on what he perceives the motive for wear to be. As Sigmund Freud once said" Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar." And sometimes Nikes are just running shoes.
Way back in the dim dark past when the infantryman's principal weapon was a rock, we fell out for morning formation in fatigues or jungles, boots and headwear. After the First Shirt told us how good we looked and what a good time we were going to have that day, we changed into our PT uniforms right there in front of God and everybody. And then after neatly folding and stacking our shirts and headgear, we faced right and went off on our morning run; tee shirts, trousers and bloused boots and all. Never had a problem with Nikes.
Way back in the dim dark past when the infantryman's principal weapon was a rock, we fell out for morning formation in fatigues or jungles, boots and headwear. After the First Shirt told us how good we looked and what a good time we were going to have that day, we changed into our PT uniforms right there in front of God and everybody. And then after neatly folding and stacking our shirts and headgear, we faced right and went off on our morning run; tee shirts, trousers and bloused boots and all. Never had a problem with Nikes.
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I think that NCO needs to turn in his/her stripes. Unless the shoes are out of regs I don't understand the motivation to tell someone to not wear a certain brand of shoes.
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DAMN, life must be crappy for troops today. may times my XO, platoon daddy would knock on the door and have a beir. they went as far as removing their 'rank' read shirt and place it on a bunk. many times the XO would sit a play backgammon till the wee hours. Top was the same, hey Top, got a minute? guess its all on the situation your in, I was a line wrench in a Armor unit in Germany in the 80s.
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As a fellow NCO, I believe your instincts told you that interaction was inappropriate, and that as a leader, you quietly stepped in to remind your colleague of this fact. I hope the situation wasn't simply left there.
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Tell them respectfully that you don't agree. If it is Unethical, Illegal, Or it is against the law. Stand Down but you should know the law.
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It depends is he out of regs wearing them? If so he was well within the limits if not the nco could be in trouble!
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Not unreasonable to infer the comment was politically based. He didnt repl the Soldier not to wear red or blue shoes again. He didnt tell him not to wear running shoes when he should have had on other appropriate footwear. He told him not to wear a specific brand of footwear. If, in fact, it was based on the specific brand, the NCO is an ass and needs retraining, or other corrective action.
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Soldiers are forbidden to wear certain items of clothing that could be deemed to subscribe to anything that could be in contravention to established law or that would bring discredit or demeanor to others but I don't think the Nike brand would fall in any of those categories. The NCO who issued the order to remove the shoes was clearly in the wrong but the order itself could probably not be considered an illegal order by definition so the soldier being given the order should probably follow it and lodge a formal grievance against the NCO through his/her command channels. If that doesn't work, lodge an IG complaint outside his/her chain of command.
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