Posted on Jul 25, 2017
GySgt John O'Donnell
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I recently attended an Air Force Boot Camp Graduation and I saw an Air Force SSgt (E-5) and an Army SSgt (E-6) each wearing an Meritorious Service Medal (Both with less than 12 years service). Now I know there are some difference between branches of service, but this was very surprising considering in the Marine Corps there is a very high standard required to receive the award. Opinions please.
Posted in these groups: Us medals AwardsLeadership abstract 007 Leadership
Edited >1 y ago
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LCDR Frederick Clem
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Gunny, before I provide my opinion on awarding the Meritorious Service Medal (MSM) to an Air Force SSGT and Army SSGT, I would like to provide some of my professional experience, military and civilian, which I believe uniquely qualifies me to provide an informed opinion on this subject, at least to a degree.

I enlisted in the Navy in 1969 and advanced to Chief Personnelman (E-7) on 16 Sep 78. At the that time, I had absolutely zero personal awards despite having outstanding enlisted performance evaluations at every duty station that i was assigned to. On 2 Apr 80, I received a commission as an Ensign (O1-E) in the Limited Duty Officer (LDO) field of Administration. I served 26 years on active duty and retired as a Lieutenant Commander (O-4) on 1 Jul 95. After retiring from the Navy, I initially obtained a job with a defense contractor which provides on site support to the Navy and Marine Corps. After a couple of years, I obtained a Government Service (GS) job as a Case Examiner at the Board for the Correction of Naval Records. Then, I took a job as the Director of a Navy Personnel Support Detachment. After working for the Navy as a contractor and GS for almost 20 more years, I retired on 1 Jan 15. In all my jobs as a Naval Officer and the majority of my time as a GS employee with the Department of the Navy, I was tasked with writing and reviewing personal award recommendations for both Officer and Enlisted Personnel as well as Unit Award Recommendations.

At the time that I was serving in the Navy as enlisted, it was not uncommon for enlisted personnel in pay grades E-1 to E-6 to have no personal awards at all and E-7 and above to have been awarded personal awards no higher than the Navy and Marine Corps Achievement or Commendation Medal. It was rare to see an enlisted person that had been awarded a MSM. For Officers, Navy Achievement or Commendation Medals was the norm to pay grades O-1 to O-4. MSMs were and still are primarily awarded to O-5s and Legions of Merits for O-6s. The higher personal awards are primarily reserved for the Flag Community as least in the Department of Navy.

I have observed or been assigned to units or commands where outstanding performance that clearly was a benefit to the organization and the Navy was not recognized as well as abuse of the authority to award personal awards. At one of the commands that I was assigned to, a Yeoman Second Class (YN2/E-5) had six Navy and Marine Corps Achievement Medals and had been on active duty less than ten years. I also seen where a Lieutenant Commander (LCDR) that was serving as the Executive Officer of a unit get the award recommended downgraded from a MSM to Navy and Marine Corps Commendation Medal despite the fact that the scope and authority of the job was at the O-5 level and his performance had clearly exceeded what was required and contributed significantly to the unit and Department of the Navy. The reason provided was that the awarding authority, a Rear Admiral , refused to award a LCDR a MSM because he never received one at that pay grade. And, another unit that i reported to had not recommended any enlisted for personal awards for years.

I believe the standard for awarding personal awards are clearly defined in the awards manuals for all the Branches of the Armed Forces. Pay grades and years of service are not specified in the awards manuals. Scope of authority and responsibility is. And, that is where enlisted personnel generally don't have the opportunity to have performed in a unit with increased authority and responsibility that would warrant the awarding of a MSM. However, personal bias and the difficulty in getting everyone in the chain of commands of units to apply fair and consistent standards to the awarding of personal awards is almost impossible to do.

In regards to the MSM awarded to the SSGT in the Air Force and Army that you observed, they might have been assigned to positions of authority and responsibility much higher than their pay grades and performed at a level that was exceedingly higher than expected and had a positive and lasting impact to the units that they were assigned. Or, it could have been that the entire chain of command failed to comply with the guidelines in the awards manuals when recommending and reviewing the awards.
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GySgt John O'Donnell
GySgt John O'Donnell
8 y
Thank you for your excellent post. I agree that these two service members may have been exemplary in the performance of duties, but I have seen the watering down of awards (like you mentioned regarding the 6 NMCAMs received in less than 10 yrs) and I’m concerned that with our “participation award” society we my be lowering standards especially with higher order of precedence awards.
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LCDR Frederick Clem
LCDR Frederick Clem
8 y
I concur. In my opinion, the awards system needs to be revamped in the DON. Perhaps limiting personal awards to combat action or direct support might be a start. Meritorious service and professional achievement should be recognized in well written fitness reports and performance evaluations. However, I doubt that will happen.
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SCPO Carl Wayne Boss
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Edited 8 y ago
Perhaps the "Give the Young 'ne a Trophy just for participating" has made its way into the Services? It's pretty much permeated every other aspect of American Society these days.

In case youse haven't noticed, in an ever widening profile of areas, that used to require a pretty impressive array of standards have all been pretty much reduced to allow participation of various & sundry what used to be called "protected classes". I've been Retired since 2006, I don't know what you're "allowed" to call them these days?

"Standards" in most areas aren't what they were 20, 30, 40 years ago.

There may come a day when they're issued along with their duffle bag & other accoutrements of the initial uniform & equipment package, kind of like the National Defense Service Medal.
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SSG Robert Webster
SSG Robert Webster
>1 y
SCPO Carl Wayne Boss There for a minute, I thought that you were as old as dirt like some of the rest of us. But since you stated that you retired in 2006, what out of the way island were you stationed on for your last 10 years of service?
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SCPO Carl Wayne Boss
SCPO Carl Wayne Boss
>1 y
Not quite that old yet, though I have been retired for 11 years, which is about I/3 of the amount of time I was in the Military. I spent my last 10 years in Recruiting on a Desert Island called Phoenix, Arizona.

I also ran a small Boat Station from the west Coast of another Island called Arizona...
I also fielded the First All Female Boat Crew & Law Enforcement Boarding Team in the U.S. Coast Guard. Each member of that Crew met the requirements as both Boat Crew Members, Law Enforcement Boarding Team Members, including the commensurate Weapons Qualifications with a Side Arm & Either an M-16, M-60 or 870 Remington Riot Shotgun... What's your point?

The Unit was called the U.S. Coast Guard Colorado River Patrol, it consisted of 130 Coast Guard Reserve Personnel, that in Civilian life were mostly Cops & Firefighter/EMT types & an assortment of other professionals. I was the Unit's XPO, Admin. & Training Officer, as well as the Senior Non-Com of a 25 Person team, One Team of 25 to 30 Personnel was on watch every weekend & each weekend team consisted of 5 Crews, that ran 5 patrol boats. Any more Questions SSG?
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TSgt David L.
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It happens, GySgt John O'Donnell. It depends on where they work and what their job is. When I got to Germany an E-3 female on the Wing Commander's staff had an MSM. We always wondered what miracles were performed. Not everyone in any service holds the standards I guess.
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GySgt John O'Donnell
GySgt John O'Donnell
>1 y
That's the cruckst of the matter. Though we seemed to have cracked the nut for awards of Valor (Bronze Star with V and above).
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TSgt David L.
TSgt David L.
>1 y
GySgt John O'Donnell - Right, who decides? My BS is W/O V. I'm not sure if that is contentious with you or not. Situational I guess.
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GySgt John O'Donnell
GySgt John O'Donnell
>1 y
Not contentious at all. You earned what you leaders awarded you. So by no means am I saying that your effort in accordance with their standards should be viewed in any was negatively. My point is that there should be cross service standards for all awards MSM and higher, since they are cross service awards. We do this with "Valor" awards, why not awards for exceptional military merit. Just my humble opinion.
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TSgt David L.
TSgt David L.
>1 y
GySgt John O'Donnell - Got it. Most of ours went at least partially through the AF side but were (as we were tasked to them) sent up through the Army side, so there is at least some continuity. Not across the board as we all agree there could/should be. Great post, Gunny.
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CSM Charles Hayden Passed 7/29/2025
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Medals - Awards- Evaluation Reports? All of them are so full of BS.

Inflation and lack of personal courage by the rater and endorser to tell the absolut truth contribute to inflated EERs and OERs. Those same people award medals. Questions?
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SPC Richard Dawson
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The running joke around the 82nd back in the 90s was that you put soldiers in for a higher award than you wanted, because if you put them in for an AAM it would be downgraded to an Article 15...
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Cpl Stephen Forest
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Everything is harder to achieve in the corps , that's what separates us from the others .
Semper Fi
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SGT Steve McCart
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Awards are nice but what about the troops who accomplished incredible feats and received nothing. It is just a piece of metal and cloth, the real award is in your mind and heart.
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GySgt John O'Donnell
GySgt John O'Donnell
8 y
Amen!!!
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SPC Christopher Combs
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I was awarded my MSM as an E4 for my duties in Iraq. Did I deserve this award I didn’t think so but my command did which is why they put me in for it, and I guess the O5, O6 and O8 who signed off on it did as well. Awards should be based on actions that go beyond normal duties in my opinion, no one should receive an award for doing there job.
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MAJ Operations Officer (S3)
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Edited >1 y ago
Typically I've seen MSMs awarded to senior personnel either as retirement awards or EOT awards. I've submitted several MSMs for retiring senior NCOs in my formation. I've also seen CSMs receive an MSM after completing a tour at the BN level. However, I would also be very surprised to see an E5 with an MSM. It's not that E5s don't accomplish outstanding things on occasion, but in most cases they don't have the level of influence for MSM qualifying achievements.

An E6 under certain circumstances is more plausible. During my last tour I wrote BSMs for my PSG and 4 SLs. Of the 58 missions my Platoon completed, I personally led 18. I typically took the longest escort missions, which resulted in my squad leaders often running the short missions independently. At one point myself, my PSG, and 3 out of 4 of my squads were all outside the wire running separate missions. That was enough for me to justify their awards, but it's still probably a rarity.

I think what's more frustrating than fluctuating standards is "unofficial" quotas. Such as a Higher HQ saying they'll only sign X number of BSMs or ARCOMs, because apparently it's just too inconvenient for a commander to sign them all. If the person submitting the awards can justify them, it shouldn't matter how many are sent up. The higher HQ commander should be proud to sign those awards, as it means his/her people are doing great things.
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MSG Loren Tomblin
MSG Loren Tomblin
>1 y
I was an Infantryman/interpreter/FO in Viet Nam. Some of my assignments had a nice pucker factor. The thing that saddens me was when I was denied promotion to E-4 even though I sported and EIB. My CO would not promote me because I was not "functioning" with the unit. I was in language school. However, when he need an interpreter he called on me in-country. "Charlie" gave me an early DEROS but he was generous with the ARCOM and PH. That was back in the day so I suppose things changed. As an addendum buy my buddies book "Leave No Man Behind".
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SGM Mikel Dawson
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Edited 8 y ago
I've seen where awards have been given out like candy from a bag. I got out in 2004, at that time I saw a LTC get a BSM and was relieved twice from his job down range. As the SNCO of our unit, I was ask for input for awards, my list was very short and was never ask again. When we got back, everyone either got a BSM or an ARCOM, which I thought was bogus. The award I have the most pride in is an AAM. All members of my 12B squad (I was sqd leader), it because we came in first in our BN competition. My next prized one was a MSM my CDR put me in for was for leading the unit, developing and writing OPORDS for on the range CTT testing (among other things). The BSM I got, to be honest I never really know why I got it. There was a write up, but never seen it.
To me awards have gotten too much like "everyone" gets an award just for being there. I really hope the system gets straighten out.
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SFC Luis Colon
SFC Luis Colon
7 y
I agree with you SGM, we had too many snot nose LTs getting BSM for just been there and going to long extended coffe and lunch breaks, while others busy their behind sometimes 18+ hours and got a cheap ARCOM, it should be of what was accomplished not your rank, there are a lot of SNCO that didn’t do much and got better than some
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