Posted on Feb 15, 2018
Is the solution to have the mentally ill police themselves?
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Posted 8 y ago
Responses: 8
I don't mean to insult you, but I seriously have no idea how you could even ask this.
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SSG Edward Tilton
People say it's a mental health problem and move on without addressing it. The woman who feel she is entitled to dress provocatively or the man who feels his need to carry a gun entitles him to carry a firearm. Both are attention seekers who are saying "hey, look at me." This want may or may not attract the attention of their target audiences but the person in the bushes playing with himself or a weapon does not have the self control needed to react normally.
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Once upon a time I worked at a VA Hospital in California. One of my officers dragged in a "veteran" who had decided that bringing his AR-15 to group was a good idea. I guess they were having show and tell. The "patient" had a prior history of violence and the weapon was a violation of the Assault Weapons Ban. SLAM DUNK EH,
Neither the FBI or the ATF had time to deal with it. I could see the writing on the wall and quickly turned his weapon over to SFPD for disposal. Sure a poo, they came in with this nutjob wanting me to return it to him. I explained that it was gone, disposed of. I imagine Psychiatry reimbursed him. A law is only a law if it is enforced. Otherwise it is just one more pile to step over.
Neither the FBI or the ATF had time to deal with it. I could see the writing on the wall and quickly turned his weapon over to SFPD for disposal. Sure a poo, they came in with this nutjob wanting me to return it to him. I explained that it was gone, disposed of. I imagine Psychiatry reimbursed him. A law is only a law if it is enforced. Otherwise it is just one more pile to step over.
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Suddenly something hit me across the head. When I was 17 I had been expelled from the Philadelphia School System (not an easy task). I neither had or wanted a job, I was a thug just like this turd in Florida. . I was given an ultimatum, get a job or go in the Army. I adapted
to the Structured Environment and by the time I was his age I was an E-5 with a wife and son. I don't know if there is any hidden meaning and I am not excusing him. Do I take the road on the left or the road on the right
to the Structured Environment and by the time I was his age I was an E-5 with a wife and son. I don't know if there is any hidden meaning and I am not excusing him. Do I take the road on the left or the road on the right
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No, but do we lock them up again, and let them go through state mental health institutions?
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CW3 Kevin Storm
In the 1980's President Reagan pushed to close most mental health institutions and released the mentally ill on to the streets. We ask them to self refer themselves, that by itself is cause for us to say we are asking them to police themselves.
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When people begin talking about "mentally ill" I believe that everyone has this worst-case scenario schizophrenic character in their head; not all people with mental illnesses are dangerous. In the case of the serious, unmedicated schizophrenic, they are unable to "police" themselves, as you so eloquently put it. The thing about being crazy in that way is that, if unmedicated, they usually don't know that they are delusional; that is kind of what makes it crazy. That being said, there isn't a whole lot that can be done that is not being done.
Now, there are plenty of "mentally ill" individuals that are no more dangerous than the everyday Joe. I am a diagnosed manic bipolar. I'm not a danger to anyone (except under certain circumstances in which I would hope that any rational human being would be violent in order to protect themselves and or others). What kind of "policing" do you believe that a person like me requires? Plenty of mass murderers in the past decade have been diagnosed bipolar; should I be locked up? Maybe I shouldn't be allowed certain places? How about just take away my right to own firearms? By the way, I do own firearms.
The thing is that I do what I am supposed to do. I go to my therapy when I need to, I seek out the counsel of friends when I need to, and I take my medications when I need to. Because a few people out of the tens of thousands of people who suffer from some kind of mental/emotional/behavioral issue does not mean that there needs to suddenly be some kind of policy to come down in order to wrangle in our behavior. Society could do a better job of taking care of those that need extra help, but, aside from that, there is nothing more that needs to be done or can be done for that matter.
Now, there are plenty of "mentally ill" individuals that are no more dangerous than the everyday Joe. I am a diagnosed manic bipolar. I'm not a danger to anyone (except under certain circumstances in which I would hope that any rational human being would be violent in order to protect themselves and or others). What kind of "policing" do you believe that a person like me requires? Plenty of mass murderers in the past decade have been diagnosed bipolar; should I be locked up? Maybe I shouldn't be allowed certain places? How about just take away my right to own firearms? By the way, I do own firearms.
The thing is that I do what I am supposed to do. I go to my therapy when I need to, I seek out the counsel of friends when I need to, and I take my medications when I need to. Because a few people out of the tens of thousands of people who suffer from some kind of mental/emotional/behavioral issue does not mean that there needs to suddenly be some kind of policy to come down in order to wrangle in our behavior. Society could do a better job of taking care of those that need extra help, but, aside from that, there is nothing more that needs to be done or can be done for that matter.
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Mental issues does not equal suspension of Constitutionally guaranteed rights.
In order to have it be the case, the individual must:
A. Be a felon or
B. Demonstrate homicidal ideation and have this information reported to the background check folks in your state.
Additional criteria may apply in a given state, but these two are fairly universal.
Unfortunately, most of the freaks and goons that shoot up schools and other public places have either not been convicted of a felony, have been convicted but figure out how to get a gun and ammo anyway, or do not seek treatment from a mental health professional.
In order to have it be the case, the individual must:
A. Be a felon or
B. Demonstrate homicidal ideation and have this information reported to the background check folks in your state.
Additional criteria may apply in a given state, but these two are fairly universal.
Unfortunately, most of the freaks and goons that shoot up schools and other public places have either not been convicted of a felony, have been convicted but figure out how to get a gun and ammo anyway, or do not seek treatment from a mental health professional.
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1SG (Join to see)
SSG Edward Tilton - Feel free to submit to your Congressman that you think the Second Amendment should be repealed. Until then, it is a part of the highest law in the land.
I don't know what the answer is, but messing with the rights of everyone because we can't figure out how to prevent mentally ill people from legally (or illegally) getting a firearm is not it.
I don't know what the answer is, but messing with the rights of everyone because we can't figure out how to prevent mentally ill people from legally (or illegally) getting a firearm is not it.
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SSG Edward Tilton
1SG (Join to see) - I didn't say the 2nd Amendment should be repealed, you did. You are telling me that thousands of chidren have to die because you can't go potty without an AR-15
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SSG Guy Gould
At what point, do you draw the line? Does some snowflake psychologist get to declare that you are too dangerous to own a gun? That decision is a matter of one persons opinion. What's to say that they themselves aren't maladjusted? There is no standard of measure that a person has to pass in order to go to college and get a psychology degree. There is no standard of measure that a psychologist uses to make this determination. It's the only place where a single idiot that barely managed to get psychology degree can decide your fate with the stroke of a pen. Think about that. The people that wrongfully misuse a gun and happen to be maladjusted are the minority. Does that decision get made for all of the other tools that get used to kill someone? No. No-one gets blacklisted from buying hammers, screw drivers, nail guns because some liberal minded psychologist doesn't think that this person should not have them. How mentally ill does one have to be to have there rights taken away? Everyone has some form of mental illness. Where is the jury of 12 peers that make this decision? It doesn't exist. Does being prejudiced, biased, bigoted or a racist mean that your psychologist can revoke your second amendment rights? Why or why not? Apples and Oranges? No it isn't. These are all mental maladjustments that cause people to kill other people. I, personally, have PTSD. That's a mental maladjustment. My hyper vigilance and nightmares won't make me kill people. Do I have to give up my guns? I don't think so. I was in a shooting where a truck driver shot at me and my wife missing us by less than an inch several times. I had strong PTSD flashbacks to my time in Iraq WITH A GUN readily available. I didn't shoot back. Do you want to know how I know? The trucker is still alive. My mental maladjustment did not cause me to do anything different than what I would normally do nor will anyone else. These assholes that shoot up schools do so with the same intent and preparation as someone that goes hunting. Hunters aren't mentally maladjusted as a rule. These murderers are exactly that with or without mental maladjustments. It's actually more difficult for someone with a mental maladjustment to commit murder like this because it's not inherently in any persons nature to kill another person. Each murderer has to work past those additional hurdles to bring themselves to be able to kill someone else.
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1SG (Join to see)
SSG Edward Tilton - Thousands? A little quick research got me a total in the history of the United States of 588 deaths, not all of whom were kids.
I think that salient points can be made without hyperbole.
I don't even think that we disagree on the substance of the issue.
What is at issue is how do we keep firearms from the hands of mentally ill people.
What I am saying is that it varies by state, but generally speaking you can't without a change in law.
Specifically as it pertains to school shootings, the perpetrators are mostly minors who lack a diagnosis with enough teeth to keep guns out of their hands.
That Muldoon that shot up Sandy Hook was a known problem child, yet what he did was steal a gun from his mother's gun safe, then went to the school and shot second graders. Short of confiscation of guns from everybody (and I am not convinced that would even work) nothing would have kept that from happening, except maybe mom getting to the gun first and filling his body with lead.
I like a good debate, but let's not get personal.
I think that salient points can be made without hyperbole.
I don't even think that we disagree on the substance of the issue.
What is at issue is how do we keep firearms from the hands of mentally ill people.
What I am saying is that it varies by state, but generally speaking you can't without a change in law.
Specifically as it pertains to school shootings, the perpetrators are mostly minors who lack a diagnosis with enough teeth to keep guns out of their hands.
That Muldoon that shot up Sandy Hook was a known problem child, yet what he did was steal a gun from his mother's gun safe, then went to the school and shot second graders. Short of confiscation of guns from everybody (and I am not convinced that would even work) nothing would have kept that from happening, except maybe mom getting to the gun first and filling his body with lead.
I like a good debate, but let's not get personal.
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I suggest you get these people on the line and sort it out with them. Ain't nobody gonna be happy.
http://www.mentalhealthamerica.net/issues/mental-health-rights
http://www.mentalhealthamerica.net/issues/mental-health-rights
Mental Health Rights People living with mental health conditions are people. They have people they love, activities they enjoy, and dreams for their lives. As people, they deserve to be treated with dignity, and under the law they have rights and protections.
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