Posted on Aug 12, 2014
TSgt Terry Hudson
59K
157
101
4
4
0
Soldiers
Recently I heard that the MTI's aren't even allowed to yell at trainees any more. I've heard a lot more timeout cards, random base liberty and a lot more. What are your thoughts? Do you think this is affecting the people wanting to volunteer for MTI Duty?
Posted in these groups: D48af888 Airmen
Avatar feed
Responses: 34
Votes
  • Newest
  • Oldest
  • Votes
SrA Edward Vong
2
2
0
It really depends on "too soft". As most Airman are not "combat Airman", the needs of the Air Force may be a little different from the other branches. Therefor the yelling and screaming and pushups may be considered unnecessary in my opinion. For combat Airman though, they go through different training afterward, so they get "additional" training.

Now I may have joined when it's a bit more laxed than before, but MTIs were still yelling and screaming and had me on my face. Did I mind? No. But neither do I mind new troops not getting the same training as myself. The only thing that I feel should be taught is respect to the chain of command and leadership. That is the key point that is important, because of Airman don't respect their leaders, then the Air Force will fail.
(2)
Comment
(0)
Avatar small
SSgt Michael Smith
2
2
0
In my opinion, the Air Force in general has gone too soft. Unfortunately, some of that reason is from the bad publicity we got from the MTI sex scandals. When I went through basic a little over 4 over years ago, my MTI would get face to face with me and yell at me to the point of which I could smell his breath. lol. Did it stress me out? Hell yeah it did! But thats what its supposed to be for! To see how someone will react in a stressful environment. You're not gonna have someone to save your butt on the battlefield or be able to whip out a stress card and crying stop it when the enemy is inflicting combat in your direction. This is supposed to be the military! This new generation is too entitled and thinks they should have everything handed to them. Its actually quite disturbing to know that these people are going to someday be responsible for how my children grow up.
(2)
Comment
(0)
Avatar small
SSgt Senior It Security Analyst
2
2
0
I'm pretty sure that's not true.

The timeout cards have always been a myth.

But regarding your underlying question, the BMT course is lacking in a lot of team building, discipline and respect for those in authority over you.
(2)
Comment
(0)
TSgt Terry Hudson
TSgt Terry Hudson
11 y
It's been confirmed on the whole timeout card myth. But because of the radar on MTI now they're scared! On top of that they have so many restrictions no cursing or yelling! Now it's up to the Supervisors to put the military respect for leadership into new troops!
(0)
Reply
(0)
SSgt Senior It Security Analyst
SSgt (Join to see)
11 y
The timeout card was a rumor started by some Army personnel back in the 80s or 90s. I remember doing a bit of research on it. But the yelling from MTIs still happens. My wife attended BMT during the height of the whole MTI rape scandal. They were still yelling and cursing then.
(1)
Reply
(0)
TSgt Terry Hudson
TSgt Terry Hudson
11 y
A couple brand new airman have confirmed that yelling no longer happens!
(0)
Reply
(0)
TSgt Terry Hudson
TSgt Terry Hudson
11 y
Maybe certain squadrons are allowing MTI's to do it!
(0)
Reply
(0)
Avatar small
CPT Senior Instructor
2
2
0
Like a marshmallow. But then again it is the Air Force. They probably play some cruel mental games on them.
(2)
Comment
(0)
TSgt Terry Hudson
TSgt Terry Hudson
11 y
I doubt it! I hear a lot of the new airman are very disrespectful! Feeling entitled to respect!
(1)
Reply
(0)
SGT Richard H.
SGT Richard H.
11 y
LOL...yes, horribly cruel games.
"Airman, if you don't get in step, you won't be allowed to watch 'teen wolf' tonight!"
(1)
Reply
(0)
CPT Senior Instructor
CPT (Join to see)
11 y
O' the horror.
(0)
Reply
(0)
Avatar small
SSgt Computer Systems Analyst
2
2
0
I've heard a lot about the time out cards and I've compared and contrasted basic training experiences with some of the newer airmen in my shop..From what they've told me, if a MTI is yelling at you, or you're being put in a situation that's too stressful and you need to take a breather, that you can pull a timeout card. I think that's pretty sad because I was under the impression that BMT was supposed to stress you out of your old civilian ways and build you into a new hard charging airman. As far as this having an impact on people wanting to volunteer for MTI duty, I'll have to say it does. My original plan when I enlisted 3 years ago was to make Staff and volunteer to become an MTI. But now that I've made staff, my feelings have changed. My MTI talked to us on a personal level about how passionate he was about the job and how much it meant to him to have a lasting impact on someone's life and career. Seeing him light up as we transitioned from trainees to airmen really made me want to experience that feeling for myself. But after all of the sexual assault cases, and the direction that this "new BMT" seems to be heading in, I'm completely uninterested at this moment.
(2)
Comment
(0)
TSgt Terry Hudson
TSgt Terry Hudson
11 y
I feel exactly the same. I dnt want to do it anymore because it's to soft! I'm almost ashamed of that too!
(0)
Reply
(0)
MSgt Section Chief, Mission Defense Team
MSgt (Join to see)
11 y
I'm about to start automatically downvoting people for spreading Stress Card rumors. I talked to my guys today and they confirmed that the whole "time-out" card is not a thing. The stress card is simply a card with the numbers of some support agencies on base one can talk to; it's not something you can throw in an MTI's face to get them out of your face.

http://www.snopes.com/military/stresscards.asp
(0)
Reply
(0)
Avatar small
SSgt Health Services Management
2
2
0
I personally have wanted to be an MTI for some time now, but with their hands being so tied and only being able to do so much, it makes i hard for a MTI to enforce the adaptation from civilian to soldier. I too have heard from new airman about time out cards, no yelling, and more liberty. These airman talked as if BMT was no big deal and they had all the time to hang out and that MTI's didn't stay late at night. This made the airman the way they are which in my view is not good enough. I went in with the mental attitude of "get told something, do it, don't ask questions". I am not as willing to volunteer for MTI duty because yelling instills fear more than talking at a regular tone with them to teach them right from wrong. None the less i would still do MTI duty and learn ways to properly train airman out of their civilian ways to make them successful. Have you spoken to any new airman about their experiences and contrasted how they differ from yours?
(2)
Comment
(0)
TSgt Terry Hudson
TSgt Terry Hudson
11 y
No i haven't talked to any of the new airmen yet. I've talked to a former MTI though. I also heard from a friend of mine the same thing about new airmen questioning them, basically feeling entitled. I guess its now our place, the older airmen and supervisors to remind them, they aren't entitled to anything. More importantly their place as a Junior enlisted member. This will be a hard task though, they haven't really been broken in. You know, have that military mindset. Oh well! I have a line number so I'll be supervising soon.
(2)
Reply
(0)
MSgt Electrical Power Production
MSgt (Join to see)
11 y
I always tried Instilling a little Marine Attitude into my subordinates under me. They never made excuses they just accomplished the task. Pretty proud of my guys, they where a good team. Proper guidance and mentoring can go a long way. So don't give up on your goals. Lead by example and mold, mentor and guild those under you. It's all part of being a good NCO.
(0)
Reply
(0)
Avatar small
SFC Mark Merino
2
2
0
Army ignorance.....MTI??
(2)
Comment
(0)
TSgt Terry Hudson
TSgt Terry Hudson
11 y
Air Force Drill Sergeant
(0)
Reply
(0)
TSgt Terry Hudson
TSgt Terry Hudson
11 y
Military Training Instructor is what it stands for.
(1)
Reply
(0)
SFC Mark Merino
SFC Mark Merino
11 y
Brother, I'd say that is a guaranteed hells yes. I see a lot of salty hard-chargers getting dinged left and right. If you make someone cry they might throw you in the brig.
(2)
Reply
(0)
SSgt Health Services Management
SSgt (Join to see)
11 y
Yes, USAF BMT is too soft. From when i was there with all of the stuff going on, it has turned into boy scout retreat with time out cards from what i have heard. All of the new Amn coming in seem to think they can question everything and don't have to follow chain of command.
(1)
Reply
(0)
Avatar small
SrA Explosive Ordnance Disposal
1
1
0
Basic training isn't too soft. It is exactly what it is, "Basic Training". It's designed to take everyone from where they came from and teach them to adhere to a set of standards. If you are in a career field that needs you to be "tougher" then trust me, that member will learn that at their next level of training. Usually when people from different branches sit around arguing about who's basic training was harder was because that was to date the hardest thing they've had to do. Not to disrespect anyone on here but you'd never hear a Navy Seal or a Green Beret sit around and argue who's basic training was more difficult. Everyone should take a page from someone else's notebook and quit arguing about pointless/meaningless topics.
(1)
Comment
(0)
Avatar small
AB Command & Control Battle Management Ops
1
1
0
It's is too soft , don't get me wrong it kinda sucks but .... It need to be harder
(1)
Comment
(0)
Avatar small
LTC Operations Officer (Opso)
1
1
0
They have rifles???
(1)
Comment
(0)
Avatar small
SSgt Edward Hood
1
1
0
War will decide. It always does.
(1)
Comment
(0)
Avatar small
SSgt Alex Robinson
1
1
0
It all comes down to political correctness... we have raised a generation of kids who got trophies just for participating
(1)
Comment
(0)
Avatar small
SrA Firefighter Driver/Operator
1
1
0
The adage "chair force" is thrown around a lot by my Army buddies in Aviano and I believe it does start at the lowest level. Being a newer Airman (almost two years now), BMT, as it stands, is soft. Yes, it became more that way when the Lackland scandal came out several years ago, but that time has passed. My experience in BMT was instead of push-ups or physical punishment (like I thought it would be), instead was 'Give me your 341!' and thought to myself that this system was pretty easy. Yes they still got in my face a few times, but it was still "enjoyable" where BMT should not be. It should instill discipline and a hard work ethic along with a physically demanding program, which it did, but not to the extent it should have been. I'm not saying it should be like the USMC or Army where you're in a combat zone and you're actually in a free-fire zone, but it should be more intense, more in your-your-face kind of deal. That's just my opinion as a younger Airmen.
(1)
Comment
(0)
Avatar small
SSgt Charles Edwards
1
1
0
I honestly believe my tech school prepared me better physically and mentally than BMT. We ran more, had constant smoke sessions, and our instructors weren't afraid to rip us a new on while simultaneously teaching a valuable lesson regarding the core values. Unfortunately, those principles seemed to be all but lost towards the end of my career. It got to the point when we cringed at getting a new troop straight from tech school.
(1)
Comment
(0)
TSgt Terry Hudson
TSgt Terry Hudson
10 y
Now days MTLs are becoming friends with tech school students. Lots of unpro-relationships.
(0)
Reply
(0)
SSgt Military Training Leader
SSgt (Join to see)
10 y
The thing is we as MTLs have been Nerf'd. If I so much as raise my voice I get a complaint followed by an investigation. The actions of the bad NCOs of the past make it hard for us now. The Airmen have been given a "time out card" when they feel they are being yelled at for something they feel isn't an issue.
(0)
Reply
(0)
Avatar small
SrA Journeyman
1
1
0
I graduated BMT in October of 2012, so I'm still fairly new. But I came out of it like a champ, I'm respectful, get shit done, and got BTZ. We got yelled at the first few days pretty hardcore ("Shirley" not like when my dad went through in the 80s) and then again in week 4 when we got our name tapes. No body had a "stress card" and I hadn't heard of them until I got to my first base from a coworker who was joking bringing it up trying to give me shot,but jokes on her cause I never heard of it. I got base liberty on the day of my coin ceremony and graduation but I didn't dare screw around and change out of my uniform. The Chow Hall was my scariest experience and I didn't even look at sweets or juice, I stuck strictly to healthy foods, water, and a glass of power adequate for electrolytes...well a few months down the road I make a new friend in the dorms who had just graduated BMT about 2 months prior. He said he hadn't heard of them either,but the MTIs didn't yell as much as he had prepared for (same as my experience). He got base liberty starting at week 4, and got a dessert almost every day at the chow hall.

So as for the stress cards-I'm thinking it's a mythical creature

As for MTIs being to soft-absolutely!

We need a strict learning/stressful environment. We need to stop with this corporate bullshit and get back to the roots of it all-WAR! We don't win wars through politics like some people do, we win it through the front lines and putting warheads on fore heads!


But what does an airman know about strategy?
(1)
Comment
(0)
Avatar small
TSgt Contracting
1
1
0
I've heard about the time out cards and the random liberty from the newer airmen when they went through BMT (just last year). Even though BMT was easy for the most part (if you do what you're told) it was still a challenge. I didn't count how many days left of basic I had... I counted it by how many times I had to go into the chow hall and walk past the snake pit.
(1)
Comment
(0)
Avatar small
SGT Richard H.
1
1
0
Edited 11 y ago
My nephew just finished BMT a couple of months ago, and what he told me confirms the "no yelling" that TSgt Terry Hudson mentioned, as well as no cursing. He said there were no time out cards (I asked) but random base liberty wasn't mentioned. I do know that on the weekend of his graduation his free time was very limited, even when they had nothing to do.
(1)
Comment
(0)
TSgt Terry Hudson
TSgt Terry Hudson
11 y
The graduation weekend thing is standard! But smh on that! Thanks for the confirmation sir!
(0)
Reply
(0)
Avatar small
PO2 Nuclear Power Field Electrician
1
1
0
I felt that Basic was too easy when I went thru almost 2 years ago. And I was our division's RCPO. If your RDC yells at you it's probably cause you weren't doing what you were supposed to be doing. One thing our 2nd RDC always stressed to us was that as a training command, it was RTC's job to prepare us for the fleet. Being lackadaisical leads to bad habits, and bad habits lead to shipmates losing their lives. I've heard so many stories about those who have lost their lives due to negligence or just plain nonchalant attitudes towards doing their jobs. You go thru basic training to mold you into a sailor/airman/soldier/marine. If I can't trust those who are entering the fleet to do their job, how can I effectively do mine? I shouldn't have to worry when I get to sleep if I'll wake up or not because someone wasn't doing their job.
(1)
Comment
(0)
PO2 Nuclear Power Field Electrician
PO2 (Join to see)
11 y
You need tough skin to do a tough job...suck it up. All the rest of us who came before you have, you're certainly capable of it too.
(2)
Reply
(0)
Avatar small
Capt Chaplain
0
0
0
I'm a chaplain at BMT. I see behind the curtain more than most people, because I meet with trainees every day who are experiencing the rigors of BMT. Whatever you hear about "timeout cards" and no yelling is flat-out false. Timeout cards do not exist. And yelling? There's lots of it. I literally have MTI's outside my office yelling at trainees, all the time. The amount of stress that trainees endure is just as significant as generations in the past. The older/retired Airmen who scoff at today's BMT are either uninformed or arrogant. The fact is: our USAF still trains hard.

It is true that BMT has more structure and safety today (esp. after the sexual abuse scandal of 2009) but it is NOT true that BMT has become categorically "easy." The MTI's are some of the finest our enlisted corps has to offer. They press trainees to the limit, in order to build them into Airmen of courage and character. I have the utmost respect for the entire 37th Training Wing, and most significantly for the MTI's. They do an amazing job of balancing discipline and pressure with dedication and professionalism. The USAF is stronger because of the BMT experience and the quality of new Airmen we push each week.
(0)
Comment
(0)
Avatar small
Lt Col Scott Shuttleworth
0
0
0
The Air Force knee jerked a couple of years ago when the scandals came out about the MTI's abusing their authority with trainees with sexual favors, other favors and just plain favoritism. Unfortunately, they went way to far the other way. Yes they need to tighten the reigns up a lot and bring back stronger discipline. They did do a good job by adding some more intensive training at the end of basic like BEAST week but they could certainly do a lot more in my opinion.
(0)
Comment
(0)
Capt Chaplain
Capt (Join to see)
7 y
BEAST week is about to undergo a makeover, much of it will become more physically demanding.
(1)
Reply
(0)
Avatar small

Join nearly 2 million former and current members of the US military, just like you.

How are you connected to the military?
  • Active Duty
  • Active Reserve / National Guard
  • Pre-Commission
  • Veteran / Retired
  • Civilian Supporter