Posted on May 29, 2015
MSG Morgan Fiszel, CPCM, CFCM
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CPT Jack Durish
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We could all imagine some rational for provoking Muslims, but I doubt if any would accurately describe the motivations of those who "poke the bear". Who can truly know what's in the hearts and minds of men and why they do the things they do.

For all who find these actions offensive, keep in mind that being offensive or stupid is not against the law. However, a violent response to that offense or stupidity, one that causes injury to another, is a violation of criminal law.

Maybe, just maybe, there is an object lesson in this behavior for Muslims. Those who choose to live in America must recognize that all of us, at one time or another, are offended by the rude and crude behavior of others. Unlike Islamic theocracies, no one is allowed to react with violence.

Maybe, just maybe, there is an object lesson in this behavior for Americans. Those who respond with violence to the rude and crude behavior of others are not tolerated in America regardless of their religious law. America is a land of civil laws, constitutionally based, leaving no room for religious law that contravenes the Constitution.

Then again, maybe, just maybe, this is thoughtless behavior...
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CPT Pedro Meza
CPT Pedro Meza
9 y
Repress witchcraft, repress women healthcare but pass out the Viagra to men..
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PO1 Kerry French
PO1 Kerry French
9 y
I believe we are in agreement... I think I down voted the pictures. I don't hold an entire group of people responsible for what one dumb guy said. But I do hold people responsible if there is a trend of repeated behavior over a very long period of time.
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CDR Michael Goldschmidt
CDR Michael Goldschmidt
9 y
The fact remains that Muslims do more harm to Muslims in countries ruled by Muslims than they do to anyone else and more than anyone else does to them. ANYWHERE. Your argument, CPT Ahmed Faried , comparing Americans to Nazis is specious at best. No one, to my knowledge is burning mosques or breaking store windows or calling for extermination. Few in the US Muslim community are speaking out against terrorism. I know of no other religion which embraces the concept of Taqiya. Unlike the Nazis, I am also not seeing anyone confiscating Muslims' property here to finance its wars, let alone pulling people's teeth out of their corpses to do it or making lampshades out of their skin.
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MSG David Chappell
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We allow people to walk on even deficate on the American flag for "art" and protests. We allow Christian artifacts and symbols to be used in the same way. Islam is upset over their prophet? Get over it welcome to the land of the free we do not bow to terrorists!! We do negotiate with them unfortunately
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MSG David Chappell
MSG David Chappell
9 y
Can we prove all mosques are supporting terrorism? How many have been proven to be supporting? Many!! How many religious leaders scream for the death of others? Only Islam.
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MSG David Chappell
MSG David Chappell
9 y
Why do we allow a religion to dictate our way of life? Why do we give up our beliefs just because they conflict with another group? Let's talk sharia law it is being practiced here in communities. Honor killings, death to gays, kill anyone who dissent believe. That's Islam.
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CPT Pedro Meza
CPT Pedro Meza
9 y
David, You are generalizing, but lets talk about sharia law then, because it does exist in every state that has laws then restricts women's health choices, the same applies to restrictions on gay marriages, and still those that demand their religious rights to discriminate against gays and lesbians because they say their bible says so.
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SFC(P) Aaron Fore
SFC(P) Aaron Fore
9 y
No generalizations. The following are Sharia laws which are derived from the Quran.

1- Jihad, defined as "to war against non-Muslims to establish the religion," is the duty of every Muslim and Muslim head of state (Caliph). Muslim Caliphs who refuse jihad are in violation of Sharia and unfit to rule.
2- A Caliph can hold office through seizure of power meaning through force.
3- A Caliph is exempt from being charged with serious crimes such as murder, adultery, robbery, theft, drinking and in some cases of rape.
4- A percentage of Zakat (charity money) must go towards jihad.
5- It is obligatory to obey the commands of the Caliph, even if he is unjust.
6- A caliph must be a Muslim, a non-slave and a male.
7- The Muslim public must remove the Caliph if he rejects Islam.
8- A Muslim who leaves Islam must be killed immediately.
9- A Muslim will be forgiven for murder of: 1) an apostate 2) an adulterer 3) a highway robber. Vigilante street justice and honor killing is acceptable.
10- A Muslim will not get the death penalty if he kills a non-Muslim, but will get it for killing a Muslim.
11- Sharia never abolished slavery, sexual slavery and highly regulates it. A master will not be punished for killing his slave.
12- Sharia dictates death by stoning, beheading, amputation of limbs, flogging even for crimes of sin such as adultery.
13- Non-Muslims are not equal to Muslims under the law. They must comply to Islamic law if they are to remain safe. They are forbidden to marry Muslim women, publicly display wine or pork, recite their scriptures or openly celebrate their religious holidays or funerals. They are forbidden from building new churches or building them higher than mosques. They may not enter a mosque without permission. A non-Muslim is no longer protected if he leads a Muslim away from Islam.
14- It is a crime for a non-Muslim to sell weapons to someone who will use them against Muslims. Non-Muslims cannot curse a Muslim, say anything derogatory about Allah, the Prophet, or Islam, or expose the weak points of Muslims. But Muslims can curse non-Muslims.
15- A non-Muslim cannot inherit from a Muslim.
16- Banks must be Sharia compliant and interest is not allowed.
17- No testimony in court is acceptable from people of low-level jobs, such as street sweepers or bathhouse attendants. Women in low level jobs such as professional funeral mourners cannot keep custody of their children in case of divorce.
18- A non-Muslim cannot rule -- even over a non-Muslim minority.
19- Homosexuality is punishable by death.
20- There is no age limit for marriage of girls. The marriage contract can take place anytime after birth and can be consummated at age 8 or 9.
21- Rebelliousness on the part of the wife nullifies the husband's obligation to support her, gives him permission to beat her and keep her from leaving the home.
22- Divorce is only in the hands of the husband and is as easy as saying: "I divorce you" and becomes effective even if the husband did not intend it.
23- There is no community property between husband and wife and the husband's property does not automatically go to the wife after his death.
24- A woman inherits half what a man inherits.
25- A man has the right to have up to 4 wives and none of them have a right to divorce him -- even if he is polygamous.
26- The dowry is given in exchange for the woman's sexual organs.
27- A man is allowed to have sex with slave women and women captured in battle, and if the enslaved woman is married her marriage is annulled.
28- The testimony of a woman in court is half the value of a man.
29- A woman loses custody if she remarries.
30- To prove rape, a woman must have 4 male witnesses.
31- A rapist may only be required to pay the bride-money (dowry) without marrying the rape victim.
32- A Muslim woman must cover every inch of her body, which is considered "Awrah," a sexual organ. Not all Sharia schools allow the face of a woman exposed.
33- A Muslim man is forgiven if he kills his wife at the time he caught her in the act of adultery. However, the opposite is not true for women, since the man "could be married to the woman he was caught with."
34-It is obligatory for a Muslim to lie if the purpose is obligatory. That means that for the sake of abiding with Islam's commandments, such as jihad, a Muslim is obliged to lie and should not have any feelings of guilt or shame associated with this kind of lying.
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MSG David Chappell
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Evil exists because good men do nothing. If we allow fear to rule us we will eventually allow our enemies to dictate to us our own freedoms.
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CPT Pedro Meza
CPT Pedro Meza
9 y
Are you talking in favor of this individual conducting the contest?
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CPT Ahmed Faried
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Edited 9 y ago
Inflammatory, juvenile, provocative and unnecessary..but it is their right to do so. Where I draw the line is their "leader" telling his minions to bring weapons to the rally. I hope local police will keep the safety of everyone in mind.
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Edited 9 y ago
Individuals have the right to be a**holes, and no one has a right to not be offended. How an individual responds to provocation or other emotional stimulation is his/her responsibility and his/hers alone.

I was verbally bullied a lot as a kid/teen, but such relentless provocation did not mandate I react out of proportion, or violently; nor did it make me anyone's victim. I freely chose to dismiss the nonsense of my provokers, understanding that violence is irrational and unwarranted except when receiving it or a credible threat of it, as I choose to not be governed by my emotions (i.e. be a savage).
MSG Morgan Fiszel, CPCM, CFCM
MSG Morgan Fiszel, CPCM, CFCM
9 y
So you would tell a General Officer to go fk off? Shouldn't respect come into play at some point?
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SFC Douglas Duckett
SFC Douglas Duckett
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Respect should come into play, respect our constitution.
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MSG Morgan Fiszel, CPCM, CFCM , I have entered into a contract, of my own free will, which gives a GO authority over me. Thus I have willingly taken on the obligation to respect GOs, and be subject to penalties for not doing so.

I'm not saying people shouldn't be respectful of others, but I'm not saying they should be either. My point is that exercising a right isn't a matter of "should" or "should not", it just is what it is.
PO2 Matthew White
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I will say the same thing I said in the last thread about this. Just because you have the right to be royal jackass does not mean you put you should put aside your ethics, morals, or humanity to exercise that right. No matter if there is a terrorist strike or not should not be an issue. (hey good job you brought a gun to a bomb fight) think of the moral ripples that are being sent out through or nation right now. The public and now popular debasing of our flag being foremost in my mind (which was the only logical conclusion to children not having to treat the symbol of OUR nation with respect In public schools if not by there teachers then there parents when they found out). Put yourself in the shoes of the rest of the world. What does this televised disrespect of OUR OWN FLAG AND NOW THE COMPLETE DISRESPECT OF AN ENTIRE RELIGION THAT HAS JUST AS MANY DIFFERENT DENOMINATIONS as Christianity what image does that portray to the world over? That Americans as a whole are petulant children who do not respect anything. That is the image we are portraying to the rest of the world.
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SSG Program Control Manager
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9 y
I don't believe that is an apple to apple comparison. First, 99.99% percent seem to have a solid grasp on the idea that free speech means your going to be offended sometimes and that violence is an unacceptable response. Unfortunately, if there are millions of Muslims in the country that .01% means there are a few hundred who believe a violent response is justified. Hopefully none decide to show up.
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I take a different perspective on the image this portrays to the world. Instead of looking like a nation of disrespectful a**holes, I think it shows the world that we have a bunch of disrespectful a**holes just like they do, and yet we don't start shooting each other over it.

People around the world are aware that they have d-bags in their populaces too, but also that their d-bags are more likely to start shooting each other than we are, over differences of worldviews.
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CPT Pedro Meza
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It is stupid and disrespectful to both the mosque worshipers and to the rest of us. The mosque worshipers have been caught in the middle of cowards that use the excuse of religion and poor thinking people that can not see the difference. Jon Ritzheimer is in the same category as the Westboro Baptist Church (WBC) is an unaffiliated Baptist church known for its hate speech, especially against LGBT people (homophobia), Jews, etc.
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SPC Ei McS
SPC Ei McS
9 y
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CPT Pedro Meza, I'm glad to know I'm not the only one who thinks of such a contest as idiotic and disrespectful!
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CPT Pedro Meza
CPT Pedro Meza
9 y
Ei. please call me Pedro (team habit), I learned after experiencing death that Jesus lessons need to be practiced and not worshiped.
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CMSgt Mike Esser
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Not smart. Just cuz you can does not mean you should
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SGT Signal Support Systems Specialist
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Edited 9 y ago
Sorry, this is CNN, so my initial reaction was GAG!

But after reading the story, Our 1st amendment and freedom of free speech is protected by the Constitution of the United States. We, as military personnel, PLEDGED to protect that.

But, having said that, I believe that this protest or gathering can be done in better taste. You know, like not RIGHT OUTSIDE the Mosque... Believe when I say I am not protecting the little radical bastards, I am just saying.

I can't be hypocritical. I DESPISE Westboro Baptist Church! DESPISE THEM! Spit on ever ONE of them. I hate it even more, they picketing our Heroes funeral, etc. They'll go straight to hell and yippie-ki-yay for that. BUT we have done a lot to squash those termites and make it to where they can not picket within so many feet.

I'm just saying that we can't be choosy. Yes to this No to that.

Saying all that, tho, I like the meaning of this protest.

We will NOT submit. We will NOT back down. We will NOT be silenced. We will NOT practice Political Correctness and We will KILL you if you attempt to take us out. Watch out! ;-)
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CDR Michael Goldschmidt
CDR Michael Goldschmidt
9 y
Written like a good little Socialist, LT. You are still a very young man. I can only hope you will come to see things more clearly when you are older. Taxation is robbery. A draft is kidnapping, even if you think it is "good for the country". Individual liberty does not yet seem to be one of your values, which is a pity. In fact, it terrifies me that you are entrusted to lead men with weapons, based on both your last post and that you support making dissent on ANY topic a crime.
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CDR Michael Goldschmidt
CDR Michael Goldschmidt
9 y
"Seriously, your arguments don't seem rational", LTC Blink Romanick, doesn't seem like kidding to me or sarcasm.
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CDR Michael Goldschmidt
CDR Michael Goldschmidt
9 y
Do I think people who deny the Holocaust have an agenda and are potentially dangerous, LT? Yes, I do. The problem with banning dissent is where do you stop? There is no more slippery slope I can think of. I don't know who "your people" are. Maybe that's the problem? From your presence on this website, I believed that "your people" are Americans? If that's not the case, maybe you should let me know. Capitalism is about free markets and individual choice, people taking risks with their own resources and succeeding or failing on the merit of their own abilities to meet consumer demand. Your expressed belief that that can include forced servitude for the greater good, regardless of whether that servitude is conscription (because it would be "good for society" or "good for the Romans" or "good for the Swiss"; I'm not sure the Swiss have conscription; maybe more like everyone is trained to defend their own homes and farms), or extortion through income tax because you don't like some people accumulating too much wealth. When you tax people's production, you make them de facto slaves to the state. Just as southern slave owners claimed ownership of their slaves' lives and production, you are claiming state ownership of people's lives and production by forcibly making them turn over a portion of their production to the state. Have you ever thought of that? This is NOT a Capitalist concept.

These are not mere "political differences" between you and me, they are fundamental philosophical ones. In a volunteer military, we agree to give up some of our rights temporarily, such as dissent and self-ownership, to (hopefully) defend others' rights to do these things. When we lose sight of this, we become, potentially, just a band of armed thugs.
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SGT Signal Support Systems Specialist
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MAJ Assistant Professor Of Military Science
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Edited 9 y ago
I guess if you are going to poke a hornets nest you best be prepared for a response from the hornets. Freedom of speech does not always mean freedom of consequences. But I also have issues with any religious follower(s) that feel a need to kill others because they have differing beliefs. So I guess I am sitting on the fence with this one. While I disagree with the method or demonstration, I would not be heartbroke if any extremist learn a hard lesson about taking their religion too seriously. (like the two in Texas)
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Cpl Mark McMiller
Cpl Mark McMiller
9 y
I don't think they're too worried about any response from the hornets in Arizona. Unlike New York and other gun grabber states, most of the people in Arizona probably have any would-be terrorists outgunned.
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SFC Robert Wheeler
SFC Robert Wheeler
9 y
I hope you are just as not pleased with the radical Christians that support murdering abortion providers.
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MAJ Assistant Professor Of Military Science
MAJ (Join to see)
9 y
SFC Robert Wheeler That is why I said "any religious follower" I guess I should have capitalized the ANY.
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