Posted on Jan 9, 2020
My 1SG wants to be able to edit the NCOERs I write, but he is not in my rating scheme in anyway shape or form. Is he allowed to do that?
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The 1SG is responsible for the accuracy and fairness of all NCOERs in the company.
As the "honest broker" for all company NCOERs, he is not in any rating scheme, he rates no one, so there is no conflict of interest.
He does not need access to edit your NCOERs, but you should make him the Enlisted Advisor Delegate for Rater and Senior Rater profiles.
This allows him to review everything you have written, and provides a comment box to the side for his comments for corrections, changes and recommendations.
As the "honest broker" for all company NCOERs, he is not in any rating scheme, he rates no one, so there is no conflict of interest.
He does not need access to edit your NCOERs, but you should make him the Enlisted Advisor Delegate for Rater and Senior Rater profiles.
This allows him to review everything you have written, and provides a comment box to the side for his comments for corrections, changes and recommendations.
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SGT (Join to see)
After seeing the changes he made on one of my ncos forms. I just have to question the guys integrity now. So bad I want out now.
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SGM Jeff Mccloud
SGT (Join to see) - Talk to your 1SG. If he doesn't have a reasonable explanation for changing your rating up or down, and he doesn't feel your rating is reasonable, then the two of you need to talk it over with the CO and/or BN CSM,
Ultimately you owe that NCO and the Army a fair and accurate rating on that NCO, whether fair and accurate means good or bad.
Ultimately you owe that NCO and the Army a fair and accurate rating on that NCO, whether fair and accurate means good or bad.
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Maybe you should read the reg a little more carefully. It definitely says something in there about your 1SG, SGM, or CSM should look at all NCOERS. While yes they may not be in rating chain they are looking at admin data, correct grammar and formation of bullet points, and that the NCOER follows the AR and DA PAM. SGM/CSMs also get training at the academy on what the evaluation board is looking for and how the rater and senior rater comments would look to the board as they read between the lines. Ultimately you have the final say in how you rate/senior rate, but they are making sure you word it correctly so you and your rated NCO don't sound like an idiot.
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SGT (Join to see)
I agree he should look into it and say hey this sounds dumb or I have no idea what you're saying. That makes 100% sense. I'm not exactly a master at the army writing style but I know what I'm trying to convey.
My issue though is that this 1sg changes what I say. One of my ncos is dead set on getting out and I fully support the guy. His mind is made up and he says do not give me soldiers (mind you he has 4 months left) because I didn't want to get promoted. So in turn he gets a very very very mediocre evaluation, just does the job and shows up on time. I get it back from revision and this dude has become a stellar nco on his form. From volunteering at every range( that he never went too) to training 5 soldiers to witn soldier of the month. That's the main reason why I ask this. Good senior leadership is so hard to come by!
My issue though is that this 1sg changes what I say. One of my ncos is dead set on getting out and I fully support the guy. His mind is made up and he says do not give me soldiers (mind you he has 4 months left) because I didn't want to get promoted. So in turn he gets a very very very mediocre evaluation, just does the job and shows up on time. I get it back from revision and this dude has become a stellar nco on his form. From volunteering at every range( that he never went too) to training 5 soldiers to witn soldier of the month. That's the main reason why I ask this. Good senior leadership is so hard to come by!
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As the 1SG it is encouraged that he review them for proper application, and mentoring. As for edits, only you and the senior rater/reviewer can make edits. Anyway, you may be misinterpreting his goals and if not you should speak with the reviewer which is likely the Commander. Thank you for your service.
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SGT (Join to see)
Yeah well this 1sg doesn't believe that. An ncoer i wrote for a mediocre nco went from showed up on time and did his job to, volunteers personal time to help with ranges, trained 5 soldiers to be soldier of the month, promote ahead of peers shot
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The first sergeant often serves a. QC role with NCOERs. I recommend printing a draft and running it by the 1SG.
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If your 1SG is not in your official Rating Chain/Scheme, your 1SG should NOT be making any edits what so ever. They can certainly provide input to the Rater and Senior Rater.....but ultimately it is your Rater and Senior Rater (And Supplementary if one is needed) are the only ones to touch your NCOER. The 1SG should be doing UNDOCUMENTED reviews of NCOERs
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SGT (Join to see)
thank you SFC. I didn't think I was wrong for telling him that. I have an nco that was promoted November and is etsing. He himself told me I never wanted this ! Do not give me any soldiers nco responsibility etc. So I treated him like a spc and recommended downgrade. Because the 1sg loves the guy (I don't know why, he hardly knows him) he edited his ncoer so much he went from just doing his job to almost earning volunteer service medals, training 5 soldiers to be soldier of the month etc etc etc
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Since the 1SG has been promoted in the senior NCO ranks twice, I think they may have some incite to help develop soldiers for future consideration in promotion and assignments. Why would you not want that input?
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You don’t want your 1st Sgt to review your evals? That sounds like a pointless confrontation. Take the constructive criticism and pick your battles. There is. I real reason not to let your leadership help out.
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SGT (Join to see)
You say that! But you haven't seen what the guy puts on ncoers I write. Shit that never happens. Its not pointless when its a question of integrity
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SSgt Christophe Murphy
SGT (Join to see) poor leadership and crappy SNCOs aren’t new.
Just lean on your chain of command. I assume there is an Officer that acts as a reporting OIC of some form. Just speak to them and explain your predicament. Stuff like this is always something that pops up.
Just lean on your chain of command. I assume there is an Officer that acts as a reporting OIC of some form. Just speak to them and explain your predicament. Stuff like this is always something that pops up.
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SGT (Join to see)
SSgt Christophe Murphy I wish I could but I don't trust any of them anymore. This unit has completely driven me to get out. People like to blame the new gen of the army but its the old school mentality that blows
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1SG and CSM should be listed as “Senior Enlisted Advisers” in EES, this is where they should make thier recommendations. If the changes support your rating, then why not implement. If they are in contradiction to your rating, then you shouldn’t have to apply them. Who is the SR on the evaluation? I’d speak with them and have them speak with the 1SG. If he still gives push back, then I’d ask to use the open door policy with the CDR or BN CSM.
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What kind of edits are you talking about? Core Rater / Senior Rater comments or grammar and other miscellaneous details? The later I would definitely encourage you to have him -or her when applicable - to do so. I had all of my company’s NCOERs to go thru him for a final QA/QC before going to the BN S1. Even if he wasn’t the reviewer!
Now, when it comes to the evaluation per se, unless part of the rating scheme, then there is an issue. He already should have a pretty good idea of it anyways.
Now, when it comes to the evaluation per se, unless part of the rating scheme, then there is an issue. He already should have a pretty good idea of it anyways.
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You’re right. He can suggest or highly recommend. It happened to me and when I told my 1SG I didn’t see his name in the rating scheme he was pissed. After a meeting with the CSM and my counseling packet to back it up No Changes were made.
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Let your 1SG look at the NCOERs, it will make you better at writing them. Senior NCOs have a responsibility to mentor junior NCOs. Part of this mentoring is writing NCOERs properly. I recently sat on the MSG promotion board. I saw alot of poorly written NCOERs by both raters and senior raters. They had miss spelling, improper punctuation and many times the bullet comments didn't support the rating.
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