Posted on May 7, 2024
Why is my COC preventing me from reclassifying due to a deployment, but they’ll sign an ETP extension only if I don’t reclass?
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My BDE CSM and LTC refuse to sign my reclass and recruiters form due to deployment. They’ll sign an exception to policy ext. only if I don’t reclass. Why?
Posted 7 mo ago
Responses: 3
SGT (Join to see), MSG (Join to see) is correct about the RCP. It's not automatic, but you can extend your enlistment to 16 years with the approval of your immediate commander.
A comment about your reclassification ETP. There are two primary considerations for an out-of-window reclassification - the timing and the reclassification action itself. When the second is routine (going from overstrength to an understrength MOS, meet the criteria for reclassification, etc.) then the approval for the ETP is usually given.
If you "checked the blocks" for a voluntary reclassification (AR 614-200*, Para 3-17a(2)) then it would likely be approved. However, you don't meet the first item of eligibility for a normal voluntary reclassification - being in an overstrength MOS for your grade (the MOS you're trying to reclass to needs to be a shortage MOS as well)*.
The overriding factor in reclassification of individuals are the needs of the Army, not the want of the Soldier. If it could be shown to your O6 and HRC that it would be in the best interests of the Army for you to reclassify to the MOS you want to go into (you have exceptional training, skills, knowledge, etc.), then you would have a shot. After that, it would go up to the HRC Retention and Reclassification Branch who would again scrutinize the reclassification request to determine if the 13 year investment the Army and yourself have made are outweighed by what you bring and the potential you have in the gaining MOS.
While your Battalion CSM might give the reason for not recommending approval to your Battalion Commander as a shortage of personnel, even if he gave it, the ETP approval would likely be denied unless you had a very compelling argument about reclassifying to your target MOS.
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* AR 614-200 - https://armypubs.army.mil/epubs/DR_pubs/DR_a/pdf/web/ARN14314_AR614-200_FINAL.pdf
* HRC In/Out Call message (22 MAR 24) - https://www.hrc.army.mil/Milper/24-090
A comment about your reclassification ETP. There are two primary considerations for an out-of-window reclassification - the timing and the reclassification action itself. When the second is routine (going from overstrength to an understrength MOS, meet the criteria for reclassification, etc.) then the approval for the ETP is usually given.
If you "checked the blocks" for a voluntary reclassification (AR 614-200*, Para 3-17a(2)) then it would likely be approved. However, you don't meet the first item of eligibility for a normal voluntary reclassification - being in an overstrength MOS for your grade (the MOS you're trying to reclass to needs to be a shortage MOS as well)*.
The overriding factor in reclassification of individuals are the needs of the Army, not the want of the Soldier. If it could be shown to your O6 and HRC that it would be in the best interests of the Army for you to reclassify to the MOS you want to go into (you have exceptional training, skills, knowledge, etc.), then you would have a shot. After that, it would go up to the HRC Retention and Reclassification Branch who would again scrutinize the reclassification request to determine if the 13 year investment the Army and yourself have made are outweighed by what you bring and the potential you have in the gaining MOS.
While your Battalion CSM might give the reason for not recommending approval to your Battalion Commander as a shortage of personnel, even if he gave it, the ETP approval would likely be denied unless you had a very compelling argument about reclassifying to your target MOS.
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* AR 614-200 - https://armypubs.army.mil/epubs/DR_pubs/DR_a/pdf/web/ARN14314_AR614-200_FINAL.pdf
* HRC In/Out Call message (22 MAR 24) - https://www.hrc.army.mil/Milper/24-090
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SGT (Join to see)
So sir me and retention are in understanding that this MOS would be able to swap from a balance MOS to another Balanced MOS ( which is what I was aiming for ) to be honest I even offered to go to 11 B to continue my career. Even HRC has stated that they don’t see why a reclass would not happen if I were to , go. What I’m saying is the CSM has stated he wouldn’t sign a reclass but is willing to extend me out to 16 yrs but only if I do not reclass , what I’m saying is both retention and HRC and I , have stated that if he willing to sign a 16 yr ETP for RCP their shouldn’t be a reason he can’t sign a reclass. Even HRC doesn’t understand the CSM and LTC reasoning for not signing the reclass. Even my battalion CSM doesn’t understand the reasoning , especially in this day and age with the army shortage in personnel. It makes no sense. Especially if I would pick up the next rank immediately after graduation, and I meet all the prerequisites.
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COL Randall C.
SGT (Join to see) - HRC's Retention and Reclassification Branch (RBB) told you (by email/phone/RETAIN message/etc.) that they would have no problem processing a voluntary reclassification for you to go from a balanced MOS to another balanced MOS? I am very skeptical of that. Looking through all the various MILPER messages (SMAPP, In/Out, SRB, etc.) from the RBB about policy changes affecting reclassification, there is nothing I can see changing the current policy.
As I stated, the very first criteria for a voluntary reclassification is to be in an over-strength MOS, not a balanced MOS, and the second is that you are requesting to transfer into a shortage MOS. Although I didn't mention it before, by reading between the lines of your responses, it sounds like you are within 24 months of your ETS. If so, that's another prohibition on doing a voluntary reclassification.
There ARE specific MOS that you can reclassify into regardless of the normal eligibility requirements (details in the latest IN/OUT Call) for a voluntary reclassification, but as you stated "balanced to balanced", I'll assume you're not pursuing one of those.
If HRC's RBB is telling you something different, then it is a significant shift from the Army regulations and policy I'm familiar with. If you aren't getting that from the RBB and instead being told by someone else that you're good to go except for the leadership, I would contact the Regular Army Reclassification Processing Team* directly and verify that you meet all of the criteria for a voluntary reclassification.
If HRC tells you (directly) that you are eligible, I'll accept that I'm wrong on the regulation and policy (I'll be very surprised if they are saying that to you, but I'll accept being wrong).
Putting all that aside and assuming there has been some change in the Army's stance on reclassification and you are fully eligible to reclassify, then it sounds like there may be a difference between influence and authority. Was your packet actually not endorsed by your Battalion Commander and sent to the Brigade Commander for approval/disapproval or are you being told that the Brigade CSM doesn't support the packet and that's why?
IF you meet all the eligibility for a voluntary reclassification, it would be a rubber stamp approval by the commander for the ETP because you're outside your reenlistment window. HRC's guidance to commanders is actually restrictive on denying Soldiers from voluntarily reclassifying if they are fully eligible, based on the current IN/OUT call message or other specific direction.
Your Brigade CSM may say he's not going to recommend approval because of the need for 92Fs or because he doesn't think a SGT near their RCP has shown "willingness to pursue promotion", but if you are fully eligible for reclassification then the commander would have to have a strong reason for denying it.
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* RPT Contact info - https://www.hrc.army.mil/content/Enlisted%20Retention%20and%20Reclassification%20Branch%20Directory
As I stated, the very first criteria for a voluntary reclassification is to be in an over-strength MOS, not a balanced MOS, and the second is that you are requesting to transfer into a shortage MOS. Although I didn't mention it before, by reading between the lines of your responses, it sounds like you are within 24 months of your ETS. If so, that's another prohibition on doing a voluntary reclassification.
There ARE specific MOS that you can reclassify into regardless of the normal eligibility requirements (details in the latest IN/OUT Call) for a voluntary reclassification, but as you stated "balanced to balanced", I'll assume you're not pursuing one of those.
If HRC's RBB is telling you something different, then it is a significant shift from the Army regulations and policy I'm familiar with. If you aren't getting that from the RBB and instead being told by someone else that you're good to go except for the leadership, I would contact the Regular Army Reclassification Processing Team* directly and verify that you meet all of the criteria for a voluntary reclassification.
If HRC tells you (directly) that you are eligible, I'll accept that I'm wrong on the regulation and policy (I'll be very surprised if they are saying that to you, but I'll accept being wrong).
Putting all that aside and assuming there has been some change in the Army's stance on reclassification and you are fully eligible to reclassify, then it sounds like there may be a difference between influence and authority. Was your packet actually not endorsed by your Battalion Commander and sent to the Brigade Commander for approval/disapproval or are you being told that the Brigade CSM doesn't support the packet and that's why?
IF you meet all the eligibility for a voluntary reclassification, it would be a rubber stamp approval by the commander for the ETP because you're outside your reenlistment window. HRC's guidance to commanders is actually restrictive on denying Soldiers from voluntarily reclassifying if they are fully eligible, based on the current IN/OUT call message or other specific direction.
Your Brigade CSM may say he's not going to recommend approval because of the need for 92Fs or because he doesn't think a SGT near their RCP has shown "willingness to pursue promotion", but if you are fully eligible for reclassification then the commander would have to have a strong reason for denying it.
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* RPT Contact info - https://www.hrc.army.mil/content/Enlisted%20Retention%20and%20Reclassification%20Branch%20Directory
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Perhaps your skill is critical required for upcoming mission?
But to further my understanding, why are you needing an ETP for extension?
But to further my understanding, why are you needing an ETP for extension?
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SGT (Join to see)
So I sent up a reclass packet through my retention ,My retention NCOIC said the likelyhood that my reclass would be approved was high once my BDE CMD approves it , especially due to my RCP hitting 14 yrs next year . A month after I completed my packet for voluntary reclass my CSM called my to his office discussing that he will not recommend approval to the LTC due low number in my MOS for an upcoming deployment covering the year I would need for the reclass, he said he understood that would force me out the army after the deployment and was willing to submit a ETP to extend to the next year so I could promote within my MOS, I then asked if your willing write the ETP would you then recommend my reclass packet for approval , he told me no , the reason being was he himself ( a fairly new CSM to my BDE only 4-5 months in the BDE ) said he felt I had not shown the willingness to pursue promotion,
Now I’m not tooting my own horn , I have recently obtain my degree , have many duty positions , maintain a real good ACFT score, have some schools on my belt , two Tech certs , and still putting college with stellar NCOERs every year. Now I get the deployment part , ( I joined knowing that’s a priority in the military ) but if you can write an ETP to extend my career and put my the MOS I really want and worked to improve my score to get knowing have well over amount of points to get promoted , why would you not also sign the reclass packet ? To me it’s like he wants me to just shut up and go on the deployment knowing I have no option in my career. It makes no sense.
Now I’m not tooting my own horn , I have recently obtain my degree , have many duty positions , maintain a real good ACFT score, have some schools on my belt , two Tech certs , and still putting college with stellar NCOERs every year. Now I get the deployment part , ( I joined knowing that’s a priority in the military ) but if you can write an ETP to extend my career and put my the MOS I really want and worked to improve my score to get knowing have well over amount of points to get promoted , why would you not also sign the reclass packet ? To me it’s like he wants me to just shut up and go on the deployment knowing I have no option in my career. It makes no sense.
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SGT (Join to see)
SGT (Join to see) side note after my meeting with the CSM my Retention NCOIC suggested I put in a recruiter packet, all I would need was a CMDR signature from company to Battalion going around BDE straight to HRC , without BDE even needing to see it , my BDE CSM caught wind of it and nixed it. Rumor mill has it he will not sign my ETP extension now ( just a rumor from a battle working at BDE office, I take that with a grain of salt though)
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SGT (Join to see)
The only one I have not physically talked to was the BDE CMDR , every time I tried to schedule it the CSM gets involved. But I’ve talked to everyone else , from battalion commander and CSM , and company commander and 1SG .
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Maj John Bell
SGT (Join to see) - In the Marines we had a process called a "request mast." It was a formal request for a response to a question or a request for remedial action on the part of the command. Depending on the level at which the request is made, there was a definite clock that started ticking. We didn't have brigades, but at the regimental level, the regimental CO had 10 days (I believe, but can't remember for sure) to personally hear the request mast and provide a command response.
I don't know if the Army has the same or something similar. If not, I recommend you make a request to the lowest level that has an IG office in your command. I spent some time in the IG's office. More often than not a Marine was making the request because the command felt it didn't have the time to provide a decent answer. That is nothing but laziness on the part of the command. Someone made the decision. It shouldn't take more than a few minutes to explain that decision. That doesn't mean the decision will change. But you are owed an honest explanation.
I don't know if the Army has the same or something similar. If not, I recommend you make a request to the lowest level that has an IG office in your command. I spent some time in the IG's office. More often than not a Marine was making the request because the command felt it didn't have the time to provide a decent answer. That is nothing but laziness on the part of the command. Someone made the decision. It shouldn't take more than a few minutes to explain that decision. That doesn't mean the decision will change. But you are owed an honest explanation.
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