Posted on Sep 24, 2020
My chain of command just announced that they're going to inspect on and off-post housing. What are they allow to inspect?
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So my question is can they order me open up my kid's room if my son and daughter are in their rooms, or if my dogs are in one of the rooms behind a closed door because of not being friendly to strangers can they order me to open. I apologize for such a naive question, I just have never experienced this before. Is there anything I can reference about off post house inspection by the chain of command.
Posted 5 y ago
Responses: 197
Invite the inspection if you can use it to your advantage to put pressure on landlord to make improvements. If you don't want an inspection (for whatever reason) ask for a copy of the rules, regulations, authority and standards to be met for inspections of non-military properties and facilities. Do they also want to inspect your POV?
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These inspections are for you but they aren't (and cannot be) mandatory if you are living off base. The reason they are conducting these inspections is because there has been a problem with members of our military being placed in substandard housing for unreasonable prices. Basically, the landlords and property owners know what BAH is and are charging up to full BAH even when that is not fair market value for property in question. This inspection is to assess the living spaces of services members to make sure they aren't being gouged, that maintenance is being conducted in accordance with leases, etc. If you don't want the inspection, just tell them that you are fine and don't want it.
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If you are living off-post, who you allow into your residence is entirely up to you and your significant other.
The Army tried pushing this back in the 90s and was met with same resistance. Why? If I buy a home off post it is personal property and as such, I the owner can allow who I want on to the property and prohibit who I wish not to be on my property.
If you are renting, make sure it meets or exceeds post housing office standards for dwelling.
With all that said, if your command presses you report them to the I.G. office and seek legal consel from JAG.
The Army tried pushing this back in the 90s and was met with same resistance. Why? If I buy a home off post it is personal property and as such, I the owner can allow who I want on to the property and prohibit who I wish not to be on my property.
If you are renting, make sure it meets or exceeds post housing office standards for dwelling.
With all that said, if your command presses you report them to the I.G. office and seek legal consel from JAG.
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I’ve been on commander directed health and welfare inspections with local CPS on base with SFOI and AFOSI, but never off base housing
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Be polite and respectful. When they ask or tell you when they are coming to your residence, just say, "No thank you. I will be happy to answer questions you may have about my home, landlord, etc. But you are not welcome at my residence." There may be some folks unhappy with your decision, and some may even lie to you and say you have to let them on your property and in your home. Stand firm, be respectful, and say NO. And be prepared to take it up the chain of command if someone decides to make life difficult for you for standing up for your rights. Some people can be really petty. If need be, take a trip over to JAG. Ask to see the rules that govern off-base quarters inspections. They should quickly confirm what you can do in this situation. If they had showed up at my house, they would have experienced my wife. And that would have been a bad thing for them. Good luck.
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Chains of Commands have no purview into base housing. If they have concerns with members in housing, they can notify the housing office &/or base security, but there has to be reason, not just "because we wanna inspect our troops' houses."
They can pack sand with that BS.
They can pack sand with that BS.
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Not gonna happen. 4th Amendment. There must be probable cause... Even then a verbal search and seizure warrant must be given reduced to writing within 48 hours. Health and welfare checks off post require law enforcement presence on post require the same if civilians are involved. Most housing is ran by civilian companies now so they must give consent on post, off post consent must be given same as with a warrant. A warrant is given to specify who or what is to be investigated.
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When I had on post housing just like in the barracks inspection of on post housing was allowed. Off post housing is only authorized with an actual ordered health and welfare check usually stemming from something such as a suicide attempt, drug use, domestic violence anything along those lines otherwise off post housing requires the same as non military citizen you must have a search and seizure warrant and local law enforcement must be present to issue this. A health and welfare check is exactly that to check the health and welfare of the soldier and their family. In both on and off post housing a law enforcement officer must be present and an order to search must be presented. Let me give you a specific on this every soldier has a right to privacy even for a Urinalysis, the commander acting in his or her capacity must make an official order to process this test. Same goes for a home check an order must be made and shown or read before entry otherwise it is unlawful search and seizure. CPS must follow this same procedure they must have an order for investigation and have a law enforcement official with them. They cannot just start taking pictures, barge into your home, and take off with your children. Same applies here. There are civilians involved and they must be given proper verification of a search and seizure warrant on or off post be it from a commanding officer or a judge.
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Opening your home is voluntary. They have full rights on base and on ships but your home is your private property. I would have nothing to hide but would refuse entry on constitutional principles.
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Just keep in mind that an inspection is not a search. They're not interested in your personal stuff, only that you have a safe and functional environment to live in e.g. plumbing, electricity, running water, functional safety features, etc.
If you have a room you'd prefer to keep locked for reason XYZ just tell them that (keep in mind they can still ask why) just tell them personal items. As long as the rest of the house is within code, one room shouldn't been an issue.
Remember, you're a commodity, and one that the service has invested considerable finances and resources to. They're just insuring the environmental safety and health of one of their investments.
If you have a room you'd prefer to keep locked for reason XYZ just tell them that (keep in mind they can still ask why) just tell them personal items. As long as the rest of the house is within code, one room shouldn't been an issue.
Remember, you're a commodity, and one that the service has invested considerable finances and resources to. They're just insuring the environmental safety and health of one of their investments.
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1stSgt Nelson Kerr
It isd much simpler to refuse them entry at the door, and if asked why refer them to the Constitution that you have swore to defend, the 4th Amendment in particular. Unless they have probable cause and a warrant nothing inside you home is any of their business
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In my opinion this is a perfect example of a lack of communications no commander will take it upon himself to try and walk in and force his way into someone’s house off base without proper authority whatever they’re talking about either they’re trying to do something voluntarily to help the troops are they’ve got some sort of criminal case and they’ve got some court orders but there certainly a lack of communication because this gentleman obviously doesn’t know what’s going on
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MSgt Allen Chandler
1stSgt Nelson Kerr - i’m sure you’re right that certain commanders are not good people. Do you have any information about this question that makes you think that is the answer? My answer and my assumption is that there’s a miscommunication and the person asking the question doesn’t have all the facts. Taking the possibility that you are correct and this commander is just plain crazy or stupid and doing something illegal then of course the person asking the question should call the local police and the base judge advocate general and report him. I’m pretty sure that’s not the case there’s too many checks and balances to let it get this far. So what did you mean by your comment?
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What grounds do they have to inspect your private residence -- OFF BASE??!! Did they state any reason?
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Capt Jeff S.
SSgt Joseph Baptist - It appears you are a product of our socialist education system because you think like one. Our Founding Fathers would probably disagree with you. Since you're paid by the government for your service, does it give the government a right to determine how you spend your money, and on what? Should the government follow you around the store and tell you what you should take out of your shopping cart because it is unhealthy for you? Cigarettes, beer, etc. ??? The rights of the individual supersede the government's right to intrude on your PERSONAL privacy.
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SPC Rich Jackson
Yeahhhhh SSgt Joseph Baptist - That's not really how it works.
BAH is an ALLOWANCE (ie, pay) to offset the cost incurred by the SM in lieu of being provided on base housing for whatever reason. Even if living in ON-base housing, your COC has no more right to enter your residence than they do to search your vehicle. Housing maint personnel can ask to enter to check the structure and facilities, but if you tell them they can't enter, they STILL can not enter without permission except under very specific, limited circumstances.
BAH is an ALLOWANCE (ie, pay) to offset the cost incurred by the SM in lieu of being provided on base housing for whatever reason. Even if living in ON-base housing, your COC has no more right to enter your residence than they do to search your vehicle. Housing maint personnel can ask to enter to check the structure and facilities, but if you tell them they can't enter, they STILL can not enter without permission except under very specific, limited circumstances.
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SPC Rich Jackson
SSgt Joseph Baptist -
Allowances are the same as expense paybacks in the civilian world. If I incur an expense at my civilian job, my employer pays me back. In this instance of BAH, the military is "paying you back" for the extra expense of not using government provided housing.
Also, I don't remember anyone ever saying that life was "fair, equitable, just or reasonable"... and *PARTICULARLY* not the military.
Allowances are the same as expense paybacks in the civilian world. If I incur an expense at my civilian job, my employer pays me back. In this instance of BAH, the military is "paying you back" for the extra expense of not using government provided housing.
Also, I don't remember anyone ever saying that life was "fair, equitable, just or reasonable"... and *PARTICULARLY* not the military.
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SPC Rich Jackson
SSgt Joseph Baptist - I find it hysterical that you think that ACTUALLY applies to the military. I would have LOVED to see you square off with the 1sg/cdr on something like this.
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Your chain of command is not allow to conduct inspections of any domicile outside of the barracks with out permission. At that point it is an illegal search and IG and jag should be notified.
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Maybe times have changed, but back in the early1980s a sergeant in 2nd Armored Division at Fort Hood, at least in my Battalion, was required to visit the homes of the soldiers under his command every year. Health and Welfare they called it if I recall correctly. I never had a problem doing so, but I generally got along with my troops after they got used to the way I did things. I simply treated them with respect and they never gave me any shit about it.
It might have something to do with the fact that there was a story going around about a guy whose off-post privileges were revoked for refusing. I never did find out if it was a true story though.
It might have something to do with the fact that there was a story going around about a guy whose off-post privileges were revoked for refusing. I never did find out if it was a true story though.
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SSG Dennis Mendoza
Yeah it's all the Army taking a new perspective to event in Fort Hood. The army is really trying to implement the NCO's to do their actual job. There's many that don't so that's why now the Army is pressuring us this way.
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1stSgt Nelson Kerr
SSG Dennis Mendoza - No part of that is doing "their actual jobs" What Reg of UCMJ article authorizes violating the 4th Amendment
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I’m going to ask a favor as a prior lower enlisted, every NCO that responded here, look in the mirror and read your reply before you proceed with the mandatory barracks inspection? I get it, the barracks room I’m assigned to is military property and as such is subject to be inspected to ensure I am maintaining it just like every other piece of military equipment I am issued. But just because I left that paper soft drink cup from a fast food restaurant on my desk instead of tossing it in the trash can doesn’t constitute a counseling statement on my “unclean” state of my room. Also finding a penny buried in my desk drawer doesn’t constitute “leaving cash in plain view” Fortunately that squad leader was close to his ETS, his replacement was much more understanding as he was also assigned a room in the same building as an unmarried E-5.
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SSG Dennis Mendoza
I can tell you this times have changed a lot since the 90s, totally different Army from my first time I was active duty which that was from 1998 to 2001.
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SSG Steven Gotz
It has been over 36 years since I inspected a barracks room, but I don't recall ever giving out a counseling statement. I vaguely remember getting pissed at soldiers who were not doing what they were supposed to be doing, but mainly because if the First Sergeant, or worse, the CSM, were to see that penny or the cup, I would be held responsible.
But I generally had some pretty good people in my squad, so it never seemed to be too big a problem. Personally, I think I would have picked up the cup, or the penny, and disposed of the problem, and addressed it in private later. But my memory may be faulty.
But I generally had some pretty good people in my squad, so it never seemed to be too big a problem. Personally, I think I would have picked up the cup, or the penny, and disposed of the problem, and addressed it in private later. But my memory may be faulty.
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They can come to your address off post, but you do not need to let them in. The bigger issue here is, if you have such a poor relationship with your CoC or if your living conditions are so bad, that you won't let them in.
I have happily invited in every officer and/or NCO that has wanted to complete a home inspection.
I have happily invited in every officer and/or NCO that has wanted to complete a home inspection.
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SSG Dennis Mendoza
This is the first unit ever I'm not comfortable with the COC. I can literally show them my online camera and they can see my living conditions, I know it'll give motive to act a certain way towards me.
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SSG (Join to see)
SFC Kelly Fuerhoff - Why though? Look at the reason behind home inspections, then make your decision.
"We were forced to do this by higher."- Alright man, come in, want a drink? I know this crap is annoying.
"A lot of our young Soldiers seem to be struggling, just want to check on the force and make sure they are doing ok or if we need to intervene" -Oh man, come in, i'm doing great here but tell me more about this, lets try and help these guys out
Everyone sits back and bitches and moans about suicide this and SHARP that. But these are the simple things that can actually identify that stuff. I know in my past unit it sure did....
"We were forced to do this by higher."- Alright man, come in, want a drink? I know this crap is annoying.
"A lot of our young Soldiers seem to be struggling, just want to check on the force and make sure they are doing ok or if we need to intervene" -Oh man, come in, i'm doing great here but tell me more about this, lets try and help these guys out
Everyone sits back and bitches and moans about suicide this and SHARP that. But these are the simple things that can actually identify that stuff. I know in my past unit it sure did....
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Thank you everyone for your info I had a feeling leaning towards the same as what everyone has responded so far literally around 1640 central time, the NCO chat in my platoon was some training stuff and then me times the inspections for everyone.
"28 sep, PSG and PL homes to be inspected by R6 and R7
29 sep, section chiefs homes to be inspected by A6, A7, PSG, PL
1-2 Oct, everyone else that does not live in the barracks inspected by A6, A7, PSG, PL" and then a photo of the slides where they scheduled this event but on the slide they put visit on/off post housing.
"28 sep, PSG and PL homes to be inspected by R6 and R7
29 sep, section chiefs homes to be inspected by A6, A7, PSG, PL
1-2 Oct, everyone else that does not live in the barracks inspected by A6, A7, PSG, PL" and then a photo of the slides where they scheduled this event but on the slide they put visit on/off post housing.
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I wonder if the person is speaking about off post housing owned by the military, not even sure that is a thing to day as I retired many years ago.
I do remember at some of my stations especially over seas some of the military housing was not located on the base bu off base with no security gate to have to pass through.
I do remember at some of my stations especially over seas some of the military housing was not located on the base bu off base with no security gate to have to pass through.
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The militarys decisions can change as much as the time on a watch. THIS TOO IS SUBJECT TO CHANGE WITHOUT NOTIFICATION
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