Posted on Jul 26, 2017
My First Sergeant made me break a profile, even after reading it himself, resulting in a trip to the ER. Should he be held liable and how?
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My First sergeant placed me on a detail that would have me breaking my profile. When i told him as much and said that i needed to call my NCO to have a replacement sent in my stead he said i would do no such thing and since my profile did not set an actual limit as to how much i could handle then i would be doing the detail regardless. The part of the profile we are concerned about goes as follows, "do not do any physical work such as heavy lifting or exercise". As far as why i didn't ignore him as one suggested and not break my profile, my 1st Sergeant was present for the entirety of the detail so I couldn't just ignore him. I am not trying to have my 1st Sergeant relieved or kicked out or anything of the sort i'm just looking for a way to address the issue professionally as i was hurt because of this and i do not wish to have this happen again to myself or another.
Profiles
1SG
Edited >1 y ago
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 166
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I am guessing things have changed much since my day but I don't remember any 1SG's reaching down and putting specific Soldiers on details. I remember Top telling PSG's I need (This Many) for this detail. Then the PSG would hit each Squad leader for bodies for the determined detail. Profiles were given work to do but always within the profile. I remember vividly troops coming back to the unit with their profiles and the PSG sitting down and looking them over with a fine tooth comb. Good troops were always given the trust they earned because nobody wanted to lose them due to the injury. Shit birds were watched like hawks and given all work within their profile allowance.
As for a 1SG sitting in on a detail all day I find that hard to believe, he/she either has better things to be doing for the company or the NCO's in that company are weak and that's the 1SG's issue.
As for a 1SG sitting in on a detail all day I find that hard to believe, he/she either has better things to be doing for the company or the NCO's in that company are weak and that's the 1SG's issue.
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PV2 Duane Schlender
When I was part of the 1/77 AR BN, I was forced behind a building by a senior NCO with a history of article 15's to lift a tank part that hurt my back because of something it is best not to discuss here. Point being, things of this nature DO happen, 1SG Hicks. I hurt to this very day because of that incident.
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SSG Lyle O'Rorke
Only time we had 1SGs supervise a detail was when the whole battalion enlisted side was forced to clean the barracks because the BN and Brigade CSMs did their monthly walk of the barracks and they were not to standard at all. I was the Brigade CSMs driver and lived in the building next to the one in question. That Saturday all the NCOs in that BN were at those Barracks.
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1SG Dennis Hicks
PV2 Duane Schlender - This is why one should stand up to wrongs, If you are told to do something that you know is wrong you respectfully request clarification till the cows come home or you find someone to stop it. One must develop a back bone when dealing with toxic leaders.
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What is your profile for and how did he make you break it? Your question is very vague and it gives off the perception you're only goal is to get him in trouble.
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1SG (Join to see)
Something ain't right in this story. I'd refrain from passing judgement based on 1 SPC. The specialist may be a squared away troop, or a turd. Either way there are always more sites to a story....
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CPL Mark Bunton
Not to add fuel to the fire but as a former NCOIC for a Medical Clinic and Senior Medic, I have witnessed profiles being broken on a daily basis. I myself was put on details and ordered to perform tasks that definitely went against the profile I had at the time which did in fact make my injuries worse. I am not sure which changes have since been made. I was never ordered by a 1SG but was put on a CSM detail that exceeded all recommendations on said profile.(Lifting a tow bar for M113 only a month after rotator repair surgery) I was NO dirtbag but injury IS frowned on as well as profiles. Depending on the COC and the soldier on profile its fair game if they choose to push the boundaries of what might be stated on a profile. The rank structure can keep a soldier from getting anywhere near the appropriate Chain to inquire about what can and cannot be done about breaking that profile. It was always stated, profiles were to be determined by Command on whether they would acknowledge what the profile suggests in regards to limitations. I never saw that in writing but it was definitely the way profiles were handled. Dont get me wrong, there are some soldiers who ride the profile train but the stigma that comes with being "broken" when it is a legit injury is a hard burden to bare and if its a Behavioral Health issue...pffft...I have seen soldiers pushed to the brink just to be rid of them. Blue Falcon or Not, it happens.
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1SG (Join to see)
The new Profile system was geared towards assisting Commanders with "problem profile pros". Profiles must be reviewed regularly and if the soldier has a profile he/ she must carry a copy on them at all times. Of soldier is on detail then the physical limitations of said profile must be adhered to. I was in a Med Hold unit for 18+ months after my 2nd deployment. I had the notorious "dead man's profile" also. I understand the importance of them profiles) and getting back in to full duty status. I subsequently did 2 more deployments after numerous surgeries and getting ready for another one. I'll stick to my first statement where I wrote that there was definitely information left out in your post...
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My understanding is that commanders can no longer unilaterally override a profile. We can only determine deployability for MRC 3 and 4 depending on the DL condition. Commanders cannot ignore the medical restrictions and instructions listed on a profile. If we disagree we can contact the provider and discuss clarification/ recommend modification, but ultimately it is at their discretion. If the command chooses to ignore or overrule a profile, and the Soldier is injured, the command can be held liable.
I don't know the specifics of your situation, so I don't know exactly what occurred. Its a very serious accusation and I would discuss it with your commander.
I don't know the specifics of your situation, so I don't know exactly what occurred. Its a very serious accusation and I would discuss it with your commander.
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CPT (Join to see)
From Army Directive 2016-07
“However,medical instructions cannot be ignored.”
This Army Directive provides the guidance for profiling and readiness. It was released in conjunction with the new profile system in June 2016
“However,medical instructions cannot be ignored.”
This Army Directive provides the guidance for profiling and readiness. It was released in conjunction with the new profile system in June 2016
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SPC Jeffrey Antalek
SFC Lew Long - sorry for being veryyy out of date here sfc, but say again? i was a 68w covering a flight clinic with my unit, so you say they used to be recommendations NOT instructions? the implications here are staggering. imma have to take a minute.
my docs and flight pa's heads used to spin with the amount of profile violation that went on. apparently this is why. something learned every day.
my docs and flight pa's heads used to spin with the amount of profile violation that went on. apparently this is why. something learned every day.
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