Posted on Feb 20, 2016
1SG Criminal Investigator
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Posted in these groups: Cba82e8b Veterans of Foreign Wars (VFW)
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CAPT Kevin B.
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Edited >1 y ago
That is an indicator of what it takes to pay the bills given lack of support otherwise. VFW and AL did a pretty good job turning me off at several points in my career. I'm the three strikes and you're out type.
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SFC Jim Ruether
SFC Jim Ruether
>1 y
Sorry to hear that sir. Maybe you've outlived some of those older SOB's that turned you off. Be a good time to try again and join up. Might see some old friends there too.
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SSG Dan Hunt
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You ain't shittin...It is Veterans Of Foreign , yet the Vets get treated like shit . Post 3433 Ladson SC
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SSgt Rebecca McAlexander
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Yes, this is the truly our local VFW. My husband did his best to go in and make it a better place. He was putting in 60 to 70 hours a week. It was for about 3 months but the Good ole boy members fought it and won when election time came. It is sad that is seems to be the local bar rather than a place where Veterans can go and relax. My husband took a failing VFW from losing $6,000 a month to making $7,000 a month. That did not matter to the Good ole boys. They are now trying to make it so kids can't come in with their parents. They are going back to smoking in the Cantina. They have alienated new members that are from Afghanistan, Somalia, Iran, Iraq, Desert Storm act. During our election the District Senior Vice and Advocate General was there and did nothing regarding the name calling, accusations and general not following the Rules of Order. When the elected officers left to go have a drink in the cantina one of them said to us "Get the F*** out of my club". NOTHING was said or done about this and this is a clear violation of the Bylaws of the post, District, Department and National. My son's membership was questioned by a member asking "What did you do to deserve to be a member?" I am also a VFW member. Seven of us went "At Large" after that day. Very Sad...
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Theresa Brown
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Yes, I was appalled when I first went to the VFW club where I live now. I'm a life member my whole family has been in the service and where I came from you had to have a key card to get in ! you couldn't just walk in off the street but here they let everybody in!!! to me that's not right our family our beautiful veterans are the ones who went overseas and fought for us and they don't even have their own private club ! I guess I'll get used to it but I don't like it that's all I have to say right now! thank you
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MAJ Medical-Surgical Nurse
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You are not alone. What is worse is when one has a CDR of "another" military organization who runs the place as if it were his own bar. (Which he does for changes and any additions to our Canteen JUST occur w/o meetings or votes). Our "Canteen" or bar if you will;. is solely ran by "Volunteers". Where I have a problem with this, is there is no accountability. To be closed on Monday and Tuesdays "because no one wants to work them" is an excuse. To have multiple people with keys to the facility is asking for disaster. To ask for Profit and Loss Statements on functions and no one can present any calls for the Leadership to be placed under a microscope and find out exactly what the hell our Budget Statement truly means and where in the hell is the money going? No Point of Sale System, prices are almost equal to the local bars, bartenders eating food and not paying for it, and volunteers drinking beverages and not paying for them, Did I mention the Cook and Dish Staff on a Friday as well as any Entertainment get paid in cash? They do. Bottom line is this, when an organization wants to solely rely on "profit" from a Canteen as well as rely on monies bequeathed to them, they are bound to fail. Shame considering our membership is 360+, Aux is 100+ and our Son's is 60+ but the same 5-8 people show up for meetings.
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PO3 Damion Brown
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It is a problem with any military based non for profit charter. There are always those that want to benefit from the work and sacrifice of others. The best thing to do is revive the mission by supporting it and doing whatever you can to encourage membership and participation.
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1SG Criminal Investigator
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I’ve moved and found a new VFW so I’m going to check it out and see if it is better.
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MSgt James Norton
MSgt James Norton
>1 y
Good luck to you brother. I have found good Posts and terrible ones.

Currently the area I live in Northern Colorado has a Post that is absolutely the worst I've ever experienced! So here are my concerns for you Barracks Lawyers and experienced Officers of the VFW. Keep in mind this is an actual VFW Chartered Post/facility and 501C organization and operates under the By laws set forth by the VFW (Constitution)
- What is the clear definition of a "Social Member"
- Can a Post actually be open to the public, public use of canteen
- Is a non member of the public considered a "Social Member"
- Is there anything in the bylaws or a general order that prohibits this activity

Because this Post is open to the public it has created various problems with membership, crime, violation of bylaws concerning disciplinary action under Art 9, Co Dept of Revenue questions concerning charitable gaming activities, and State Liquor Law questions. The State Dept of Colorado VFW is aware of this and unfortunately turned a blind eye. When the previous District VFW Commander tried to correct these matters (including encouraging the Post to stop allowing a notorious biker club from holding their "Church" meetings within the club) he was threatened and intimidated by these patrons (Non VFW members)!

As I said, this is the worst place I have encountered. I encourage any replies from the CO Dept or National. I will be glad to put you in touch with the past District Commander and provide you with official records from Liquor Control and local law enforcement.
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SSG Edward Tilton
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My first was when they caught my American Legion Post smuggling guns to the IRA, Another was a Vietnam Veterans Post where there didn't seem to be a single in country vet except me
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SSG Ray Elliott
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I have some of the same complaints about my local VFW and Legion posts as most of you here. The inactivity of the posts members is a big issue for me. I have a lifetime membership to the VFW, but although my only involvement with my Legion post is playing Taps a few times a year I still pay my dues every year. The main reason that I pay my dues and encourage other veterans to join, and keep their membership current is that the VFW and Legion do a good job of representing veterans causes, and lobbying for veterans. So although the clubs don't appeal to every Veteran there is a good reason to consider joining. The larger the number of voters these organizations represent the more their voices will be heard on capitol hill.
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SGT James Hammons
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Don't give up, recruit younger members to make a change.
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SSG Ray Elliott
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Our VFW post meets in the local Legion Hall. I've got a life membership in the VFW, but I've stopped going to meetings. Although I'm a past commander of our post (with a white hat), I found that I couldn't motivate our members to get involved or do anything. Going to meetings with no real purpose was frustrating so I just stopped attending. I'm not very active in the American Legion Either although I belong to both organisations. I'm not a big drinker anymore, and I just don't have the desire to go to bars. I find very little besides the bar to go to the post for. I play taps for the post a few times a year, and that's pretty much the extent of my involvement. There is a fairly large contingent of Sons of the Legion members when I do go, and I get the idea most of them belong because they want a cheap place to drink.
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SCPO Investigator
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Unless accompanied by a member of that post, no one should be serving these non-members anything. Our bars are private and licensed as such. Could they be members of other posts? If not, someone best have a chat with the post commander. This could get you in hot water with the Liquor Control Board of your state.
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CPO Bobby Welch
CPO Bobby Welch
>1 y
That may be the case in your state, but in IL posts are not legally considered private clubs, many posts in IL have public welcome signs and I agree with it. As I stated in an earlier comment on this thread, the canteen is there to support the functions of the VFW not replace the VFW. The VFW is the meeting/it is the membership. Posts that do not change will close their doors and loose relevance. As a post commander and soon to be district commander I see what happens to the posts stuck in the past all to often... I am on my 4th post...
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SCPO Investigator
SCPO (Join to see)
>1 y
CPO Bobby Welch - I've seen that, too. Relevance, viability, whatever you call it, military organizations, social fraternities, churches, sewing clubs...EVERYONE is feeling the crunch of acquiring AND maintaining members.
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SSG Ray Elliott
SSG Ray Elliott
9 y
Here in NY Posts are private clubs and only members or their guests are allowed. There is a loophole though: members include Auxiliary members, and Groups like the Sons of the American Legion, etc. In many posts these non-veteran members outnumber the veterans at least at functions sponsored by the post, or at the bar.
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LCpl Motor Vehicle Operator
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9 y
Usually when a post opens the bar to non members it's because there aren't enough members to support it so they have to open to the public to survive.
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SGT Jesse Velasquez
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The only VFW I'v ever been to, was in Colrado a springs, CO. I was there with my best friends parents, his dad was a vet. I wasn't treated any different then anyone else. All we did was drink, and sing Kereoke. I was even allowed to join, but I never did. When I'm out in public these days, whether it's in Reno, NV., or here in Vegas, I treat all vets with respect, if I can see that they're vets. That's with a handshake and a thank you, didn't matter if they were VFW or regardless of branch of service. In my eyes, we're all the same! We all served with honor and we took pride in the fact that we served. No reason why any veteran should think that they're better or more privileged then anyone else.
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PV2 Glen Lewis
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That and a bingo hall are ever mine has ever been.
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Sgt Mike Clark
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The VFW, it is my understanding, can only serve Veterans of Foreign Wars. They are supposed to have verified that service in order to even let you join the organization. I am unsure what the rules are on bringing "non-vet" guest, but would guess they are most likely not allowed. Perhaps the bar area is more interested in turning a profit than following rules.
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LCpl Motor Vehicle Operator
LCpl (Join to see)
9 y
Bar is controlled by the state laws unless it's private. Once they modify their license they are allowed to let anyone in.
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SCPO Investigator
SCPO (Join to see)
9 y
The post sets it own rules, within the outline created by the National VFW by-laws. Opening the doors to the outside can be the result of a single causation or multiple reasons. The bars don't turn a profit, even from serving members, the bar closes, simple as that.
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1SG Antwan Nicholson
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I joined the VFW Post (Life Member) in my hometown, in Ohio, back in 2000. I never went again until after I retired to visit my mom. I found out real quick that they now have 'civilians' who can be sponsored by an actual member and can become a 'Guest Member' for a donation of $30 a year. They have access to the VFW and all its events throughout the year. They can't participate in meetings, voting, Color Guard, or anything else that a Veteran, who's dues are paid in full, are allowed to.

At first thought, I was like, "WTF, over?". But within 10 minutes of being there, I realized those guest members were needed to keep the Post active. Unlike here in San Antonio, Texas, Veterans are a very small percentage of the overall adult population in NE Ohio. When I joined16 years ago, there was no need for these guest members. It was unheard of. But now, probably over two-thirds of the overall memberships at that Post are Guest Memberships. Most of the WWII veterans are now deceased. Korean War veterans numbers aren't too large either. The largest veteran memberships currently are those of the Vietnam era. Once they're gone all that'll be left is us veterans who joined after 1973 in an all volunteer force. We need them to remain active. They also spend a lot of money on raffles, toy drives, food collection for the needy, and other money making ventures that the Post sponsor...not just in the canteen drinking.

Like I said earlier, in NE Ohio (and other states north of the Mason-Dixon Line or have military bases), I feel Guest Memberships are needed and as long as they're respectful of our military customs, courtesies, and traditions I'm proud to sponsor them at our Post.
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SFC Jim Ruether
SFC Jim Ruether
>1 y
I have never heard of Guest Memberships to any VFW? I wonder if that is sanctioned by the National VFW Board or if its something the local VFW club dreamed up to help support the club. Good for you guys!
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SFC Jim Ruether
SFC Jim Ruether
>1 y
Hi again 1SG Nicholson are these guest members joining because they have a family member that is either in the VFW or the Auxiliary? Because a civilian can be a member if his dad, brother, sister or immediate family is a veteran who belongs to the same club.
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SFC Jim Ruether
SFC Jim Ruether
>1 y
The National By-Laws provides for one type of membership, i.e., active membership in good standing in the Veterans of Foreign Wars with membership being in accordance with the By-Laws of the Veterans of Foreign Wars. Social membership or any other type of membership other than active membership meeting the eligibility criteria set forth in the By-Laws is not authorized or condoned. Any Post admitting social members is in direct violation of the By-Laws and subject to disciplinary action to include the revocation of charter. "Social Members" in the Clubroom/Canteen: In addition to the By-Laws of the Veterans of Foreign Wars, VFW Posts maintaining canteen/club operations serving alcohol beverages are required to comply with all applicable local, county and state regulations pertaining to such operations. In some instances, these regulations do provide for guests, but it is at the discretion of the Post to allow guests entry to their canteen/club.
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Sgt Joseph Jacobo
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yes. and one of them is in Wilmington,ca.
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SGM Maurice Risley
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I think what is being missed is the Canteen is one of the many ways that posts struggle to raise funds. These are the funds that are used for community contributions. Just yesterday between the Auxiliary and Post we distributed close to 2K to fund a JROTC unit to participate in a National compaction and another 1K for Post maintenance. To answer the Soldiers question, it has become very difficult to get Veterans to support the Canteen so creative means are made to keep the Canteen running. Hence keeping the Post alive. While attending post meetings pay close attention to the Quartermasters financial report and you will understand where these funds are coming from. As a Challenge, get involved and provide creative ideas to help your Post thrive. The Canteen is not just a Bar, it’s the life blood of almost every VFW Post
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SSG Mark McMurray
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I joined my post in September 2014. I became the Commander June 2015. I reminded the post members of the mission of the VFW.The purpose of the VFW. If you want changes to happen, YOU have to help make them happen. If more younger combat veterans would join, the faster positive changes will happen. If you don't want to join ,but all you want to do is complain, then SHUT UP!
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1SG Criminal Investigator
1SG (Join to see)
>1 y
Pretty abrasive. This wasn't a complaint but more of an observation.

I've talked to officers in our local VFW and haven't gotten anywhere. I have attempted to become involved but haven't been welcomed. Ive learned several different ways I can move forward with this if I choose to on this thread.

I'm a lifetime member and my former VFW Post wasn't like this. I was looking to learn if this is something that is just an issue in my local VFW or if it is widespread.
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SSG Mark McMurray
SSG Mark McMurray
>1 y
Some situations call for an abrasive approach. You have to stir the pot a little to make changes happen. My post has been around for 80 years and I want it to be around for another 80 years. The canteen is a fund raiser. It call also be used as a tool to help recruit new members and promote comrodery. The down side is it can deter some possible members. That is where you learn what changes need to be made.
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LCpl Motor Vehicle Operator
LCpl (Join to see)
9 y
The Commander is the lead, if he doesn't recruit and push it, nothing gets done. ads in the paper, start a newsletter, recruiting campaigns have to be ongoing 365. It's a numbers game. There is actually a Recruiting Committee that is responsible with one of the Vice Commanders in charge (Legion). When the committee reported at the meeting, what did you do with it? How much money in the budget did you commit?
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CPT Pedro Meza
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VFW, I have visited as a matter of survival have open their doors to family members, the issue of fraternal organization has become more of a days gone by issue, because the younger veterans are more interested places for their family. We be Old School.
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