Navy vet flips off officer in APC and gets pulled over. What are your thoughts on the militarization of our police force?

Sir,
I'll try to address some of this:

1. Why does the Myrtle Beach Police Dept (MBPD) need a mine resistant vehicle?

They don't, however, the FEDERAL government gives them these items at such a good deal, they would be stupid not to take them. When you can buy them for pennies on the dollar, AND get REAL (like actual Law Enforcement) training for free to go with it, it becomes a no brainer. You take the gear to get the other stuff. You take the "package deal" to get 2-3 things you really want, and end up with a bunch of other stuff. That doesn't mean you won't use what you have though.

2. While it may have been given free as part of a gov't surplus program aimed at protecting our police officers, were any strings attached?

Absolutely. See above. But as Robert Heinlein said "TANSTAAFL - There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch." Taking the gear obligates you to assist Federal agencies when Federal investigations happen in your "yard."

3. Should these vehicles have been given to the National Guard rather than the local police forces?

Yes & no. The idea is to get them off "Federal" books. If they are on Federal books, they are one "color of money," but if they are State/Local, they are another "color of money" which means they don't have the same oversight. It's a political trick. A good one.

4. In the long run, are we not fiscally better off using squadcars and motorcycles and calling in the National Guard to work with the police when the situation warrants?

Absolutely, but... this is an "accounting trick." It's like mothballing equipment instead of destroying it. If you destroy it, it's gone. If you mothball it, you have to account for it on your ledgers. But if you "sell it" to the state/local governments, it becomes their problem. Now what happens is, they use their budget to buy $1M of equipment for $100k and get lots of free training. Sure they could buy $100k worth of squadcars.. but what would you do, if you were an accountant?

5. Does this militarization of local law enforcement cause the police to power trip and react differently, and treat the public as the enemy?

Yes. I'd love to give a more in-depth answer, but it does. If you carry a .38 with 5 rounds, you react differently than if you carry a 9mm with 17+1, or if you carry a M16 with 30rd. The more firepower you have, the more you are WILLING to escalate, because the more you are ABLE to escalate.

Mixed emotions on this one, boss. I've been a cop for a long long time, but was a combat vet first. As a vet I would never flip off a cop, and believe me I've seen some cops act like horses a$$'s. But I guess it's all perspective. One retard cop screws up a lot for hundreds if not thousands of good cops. With my army pension& disability I could just sit on my butt and not worry about what is going on in my community or my state or my country, but I'd probably be dead in two years. I feel like my dad now when I'm counseling young rookie type cops. I usually fall back on my old line that if ya want to make it in this business you better figure out quick that we can help people. Kids get molested daily. Women get beaten sometimes murdered daily. Old people are abused daily. Patrol and detective work are not Dirty Harry or CHIPS. Policing is like a combat tour in some ways...days and days of boredom for a few moments of terror and a split second to hopefully save a life and not be killed in the process.

I've only used my duty weapon twice in all theses years, and I'm proud of that fact. I'm usually the guy with an arm around a kid or helping a lady change a tire on a roadside. I've only lost one partner in all these years and i still miss him. I wish I had been in a different position that day and closer to where he was. In a way I think the police would be militarized/"martial law" deployed much less likely as the 82nd Airborne or the 101st (my old outfit). Not that those wonderful Officers and NCOs would participate in such colossal illegality, I'm just saying that their training and standards are high enough to actually make it work, if they were inclined.

And if I ever got an order to go house to house to take guns from my people like dad or granddad here with my fellow Tennesseans, I'd quit this job. Probably slap whoever gave me so illegal/unconstitutional an order in the mouth. Might get in a jam myself, but I've tried to stand for the right my whole adult life. Not gonna stop now. I've met so many wonderful law men and gals thru the years, that I feel these sentiments are in the majority of all career law officers. Certainly don't want to ruffle any feathers of folk with differing views, but trust you enough Capt Jeff S. to tell you the truth.

As always, thanks for your leadershp and your example. Thank you for discussing something that is probably on a lots of hearts lately. Blessings to you and family and all vets.

Apparently, I have the constitutional right to flip off cops. That is just spiffy, but I would never do that in a million years. I guess had a surplus of a brazillion MRAP's and other up armored toys that we brought back from Iraqistan. Instead of putting them next to my beloved OH-58D in the open desert's boneyard, we sold them to state government agencies for $1. If a cop in getting fired at by a threat that warrants it, by all means use your new toy as you deem necessary to ensure that our protectors are protected. No matter what force is applied, cops shall be held to the highest levels of scrutiny and be accountable for their actions. Was the "tank" patrolling the neighborhood or en route to somewhere? If they are using it to patrol, that is just the dumbest thing I have ever heard of. If it was in a well known drug area, where shootouts are a daily occurrence, have that bad boy cued up and ready to go! Some neighborhoods are armed to the teeth. In Philly, during the 80's, there were neighborhoods so dangerous that the cops just waited for cars to leave the area and then search for drugs. AK's "choppers" were on the street and a dime a dozen; cops had shotguns. I wish they had 100 of these "tanks" and went to town!
So keep flipping off those cops, America. Show us what you are made of. Just because something is legal doesn't mean it should be done. It is also your constitutional right to yell at and spit on the lions when the cage door unlocked. It is also your constitutional right to burn the American flag in front of a bunch of drunk service members who just redeployed and are at the bar toasting their fallen buddies. Good luck with all of that, and God bless America.

"This drug thing, this ain't police work. No, it ain't. I mean, I can send any fool with a badge and a gun up on them corners and jack a crew and grab vials. But policing? I mean, you call something a war and pretty soon everybody gonna be running around acting like warriors. They gonna be running around on a damn crusade, storming corners, slapping on cuffs, racking up body counts. And when you at war, you need a fucking enemy. And pretty soon, damn near everybody on every corner is your fucking enemy. And soon the neighborhood that you're supposed to be policing, that's just occupied territory. "
-Bunny Colvin "The Wire"

I didn't realize mines were a problem on the streets of America.

How does someone investigate crime with an armored vehicle? Now, when you finishing laughing at that concept, think about it. It really is that absurd...

The civilian police force at the local township level has NO need for MRAPs, APC's, BearCats, or any other type of up armored vehicle. The whole reason they get them is due to the Federal Government spending billions for them for use in the middle east and now having no use for them.

Give them to the guard or the County Sheriff or State Police.

Our community police need to get back to the "Mayberry Method" of police work. Cops and Soldiers are different animals. Like Wolves and Dogs. Same species but different.

Don't take this in a derogatory sense but police are like domesticated dogs. They live in the society for which they protect. They are most effective when they are closest to those they protect, much like the family dog.

Wolves live separate lives in packs and hunt to kill and eat. That is all they are good for. Hunting to kill. That is what soldiers are for. They hunt the enemy and kill them. They fail miserably when crosstrained for anything else. Disagree? Look at how Soldiers (for the purpose of this post all members of the armed svcs are soldiers) live. They are separated from society as much as humanly possible on Bases, Forts, Camps. They have a different language, they have a different legal system, and different way of life.

When cops try to be more like soldiers you end up with more strife. Soldiers are not trained nor designed to "Protect the peace." From ancient times the Sheriff's sole purpose was to maintain the good order and production of the King's Peace, Collect Taxes, and serve as the King's mediator in disputes between subjects.

US police are civilians and that simple fact rankles most cops. That is where the rub is. I have several friends who are Cops and I tell them this all the time. You are a civilian who is charged to help maintain the law and order of this town. Never met a cop who does not differentiate themselves and their brethren officers from Civilians.

The problem is systemic, as in the system is designed to train cops as the military trains soldiers. You will always have the frustration that falls to authoritarianism with this system.

Cops in England don't carry guns for this reason. Not because the country is anti-gun. The patrolmen for the London Metro Police have never carried anything more than a baton because they are deemed to be "peacemakers" and mediators. Most cops in the UK will tell you it takes more balls to be a cop in England than it does in the US because you have to use your judgement, wits, and knowledge of the area to make it work.

US cops have had the ability to use judgement stripped from them and are more or less sentries that notify higher authority to ask them if they have the authority to do something.

As I said before. We need to get back to the Mayberry Method where the cops are the good guys and know the people they are policing. The cops need to not be the frustrated hero. The cops need to simply be the iron fist within the velvet glove.

Capt Jeff S. - Captain - I'm not sure about it, but I think that the cops should have tanks, artillery, and ground attack helicopters.

After all, you never know what those desperate criminal low-lifes might have hidden away.

Not only that, but the police should all be issued full body armour and have carte blanc to shoot potential suspects on sight without any fear of potential legal (either civil or criminal) action being taken against them - after all the police are only defending all of the law abiding citizenry from the heavily armed and highly dangerous scofflaws and innocent mistakes do happen. (The Police Department can always send flowers to the funeral.)

More realistically, having the police driving around in armoured vehicles is something which we are more accustomed to seeing in tin pot, third-world, dictatorships (although, admittedly, the armoured vehicles are more likely to be "Made In America" than anywhere else).

The police do not need military vehicles period. You raise some good points that if that type of equipment is needed, that's what the National Guard is for!

I already have a problem with police departments becoming (or being) para military forces and also take issue with the fact that police have no obligation to protect life and property but only to enforce laws.

I believe it has already been ruled by courts (I'm too lazy to look up the research) that people have the right to flip off police as an expression of freedom of speech. If this man really did get pulled over for flipping the cops off, then those cops obviously have let their authority go to their heads and think that we should have to kiss their @$$es.

Police don't need MRAPs, or military gear... This whole militarization of the police at large (not SWAT/SRT, but all police) is concerning to say the least. We have the National Guard, if we need the military within a state.