Posted on Apr 23, 2015
NCO getting in trouble because he made an EO complaint! What can be done?
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The scenario I am about to describe is a very common tactic taken by leadership to help keep issues or grievances at the “lowest level”. However, it has junior soldiers and NCOs working in non-existent MTOE slots or not in a job the correlates with their MOS at all.
Currently, my peer that is battling this very situation and I’m seeking advice on how they should handle it. They spoke up about a situation to their First Sergeant and Commander regarding a blatant EO situation with their new platoon sergeant. My Battle Buddy chose not to report at the time trying to forge a working relationship with the SFC, and did talk to them about the situation. The working relationship was very strained afterwards, especially because the platoon sergeant was rarely at work causing this junior leader to pull up the slack without complaint.
Where the situation hit a pinnacle point was when the new platoon sergeant degraded them in front of the platoon’s subordinates openly. The NCO brought everything to the attention of their First Sergeant and Commander using the open door policy. The junior NCO owned their mistake and understood that they may face a summarized Art15 for potential disrespect contingent on the findings. The platoon sergeant never showed back up for the Commander to make a decision, nor did he ever counsel the NCO. No ramification or corrective action was taken, however; the junior NCO has now been bounced around multiple job positions that have nothing to do with their MOS. While working for their First Sergeant, the Commander tried to shift the blame of his mistake onto my peer while they were on emergency leave and had nothing to do with either incident. Once they returned from emergency leave the NCO was transferred again.
This NCO was highly motivated, highly motivated at their job and considering going indefinite. They now want to submit a 4187 for early separation and simply get out of the military all together. To make matters worse, they reached out to their First Sergeant and were told to “ride it out”. I understand this is a public forum so many of the details have been left out, but I am at a loss as to what to recommend. Please help.
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Currently, my peer that is battling this very situation and I’m seeking advice on how they should handle it. They spoke up about a situation to their First Sergeant and Commander regarding a blatant EO situation with their new platoon sergeant. My Battle Buddy chose not to report at the time trying to forge a working relationship with the SFC, and did talk to them about the situation. The working relationship was very strained afterwards, especially because the platoon sergeant was rarely at work causing this junior leader to pull up the slack without complaint.
Where the situation hit a pinnacle point was when the new platoon sergeant degraded them in front of the platoon’s subordinates openly. The NCO brought everything to the attention of their First Sergeant and Commander using the open door policy. The junior NCO owned their mistake and understood that they may face a summarized Art15 for potential disrespect contingent on the findings. The platoon sergeant never showed back up for the Commander to make a decision, nor did he ever counsel the NCO. No ramification or corrective action was taken, however; the junior NCO has now been bounced around multiple job positions that have nothing to do with their MOS. While working for their First Sergeant, the Commander tried to shift the blame of his mistake onto my peer while they were on emergency leave and had nothing to do with either incident. Once they returned from emergency leave the NCO was transferred again.
This NCO was highly motivated, highly motivated at their job and considering going indefinite. They now want to submit a 4187 for early separation and simply get out of the military all together. To make matters worse, they reached out to their First Sergeant and were told to “ride it out”. I understand this is a public forum so many of the details have been left out, but I am at a loss as to what to recommend. Please help.
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EO
Leadership
Mentorship
Edited 9 y ago
Posted 9 y ago
Responses: 21
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Sounds like retaliation after your friend tried to do the right thing and follow it from the bottom up. We are told regularly that we should go to EO if something like that happens.
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I have seen this type senerio throughout my career. This is toxic leadership in effect. I recommend all of the above. I also encourage you to have the NCO write down the senario. Lastly this also leads to talks with legal.
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When you have a problem. You go up the chain.
Start with the immediate supervisor, then the 1SG, then the SGM. If they can't help you, start looking at "Request Mast" (or Army Equivalent)
You mentioned Art 15, which means "Full Stop" - Go see JAG. Whatever legal ramifications have been introduced need to be resolved before anything else can be dealt with.
Start with the immediate supervisor, then the 1SG, then the SGM. If they can't help you, start looking at "Request Mast" (or Army Equivalent)
You mentioned Art 15, which means "Full Stop" - Go see JAG. Whatever legal ramifications have been introduced need to be resolved before anything else can be dealt with.
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Please help while you leave out details and paint an incomplete picture?
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Many details have been left out. To clarify perspective in Equal Opportunity I will share mine. If a soldier is given the directive they can not conduct PT with the company because they chose to wear the most authorized and current PT uniform predicated by HRC with current policy in hand; is this not EO. They were trying to emmulate the new standard and then further cut down to the entire company that this is unsatisfactory. That was the complaint and it wasn't informal or formal, merely a miscommunication that they regret not reporting from the get go.
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SGT Nia Chiaraluce
Yes it actually is and in this case can be considered a discriminatory directive that was then used to "make an example" of a service member. It is in the EO handbook that we are to harvest enviornments free of this. The salt in the wound for the senior giving this order, was when the company 1SG came back from deployment two weeks later they were wearing and promoting the new APFU uniform.
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SPC Michael Clark
My sincere additional advice, if you like your job... don't rock the boat. 82nd CAB is still corrupt I see.
82nd leaders love to tell subordinates that they work for 82nd... well that isn't so... they work for the US Army and just happened to be assigned to 82nd.
Also, if new troops are arriving with the new uniforms, then those leaders can go suck an egg... if new troops are told that they need to purchase the old uniforms as to maintain uniformity and unit cohesion, then those should be paid for by the unit and issued as OCIE.
I remember back in early 2004 when the US Flag reverse patch was mandated, I was the first to have them sewn onto my BDUs. The reason I did was because I had just got to the unit and just received my unit patch, therefore I wanted to get everything done at alterations at one time. I had rubbed my leadership the wrong way and I was ostracized. I was just a Private/E-1...
In 2005 during the switch from BDUs to ACUs, I waited for my command to tell me what I had already known via MILPER messages. That was that we could wear the tan undershirt and the tan desert boots with the BDUs during the wear out phase.
During that same time, a NCO from my platoon had "jumped the gun" and wore the tan boots about two weeks before the Command gave the go ahead. That NCO was pulled to the rear of the company formation and told to correct himself.
Now, the uniform issue is moot... that NCO should have known better, however, the NCO should have not been degraded in front of subordinates. This is what makes it more suited for an IG Complaint than an EO complaint.
Now, with you being in 82nd... I highly doubt that IG, even DIV IG, will do anything.
Trust me, I know first hand that 82nd IG won't to anything for troops that aren't afraid to rock the boats.
It may suck, but... you should put blinders on and just do your job... you won't be able to change the 82nd Mentality.
82nd leaders love to tell subordinates that they work for 82nd... well that isn't so... they work for the US Army and just happened to be assigned to 82nd.
Also, if new troops are arriving with the new uniforms, then those leaders can go suck an egg... if new troops are told that they need to purchase the old uniforms as to maintain uniformity and unit cohesion, then those should be paid for by the unit and issued as OCIE.
I remember back in early 2004 when the US Flag reverse patch was mandated, I was the first to have them sewn onto my BDUs. The reason I did was because I had just got to the unit and just received my unit patch, therefore I wanted to get everything done at alterations at one time. I had rubbed my leadership the wrong way and I was ostracized. I was just a Private/E-1...
In 2005 during the switch from BDUs to ACUs, I waited for my command to tell me what I had already known via MILPER messages. That was that we could wear the tan undershirt and the tan desert boots with the BDUs during the wear out phase.
During that same time, a NCO from my platoon had "jumped the gun" and wore the tan boots about two weeks before the Command gave the go ahead. That NCO was pulled to the rear of the company formation and told to correct himself.
Now, the uniform issue is moot... that NCO should have known better, however, the NCO should have not been degraded in front of subordinates. This is what makes it more suited for an IG Complaint than an EO complaint.
Now, with you being in 82nd... I highly doubt that IG, even DIV IG, will do anything.
Trust me, I know first hand that 82nd IG won't to anything for troops that aren't afraid to rock the boats.
It may suck, but... you should put blinders on and just do your job... you won't be able to change the 82nd Mentality.
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I'm not seeing an EO complaint here unless there is a major detail missing. From what I can see this is an IG issue. If any art 15 proceedings are initiated then TDS should be the next stop. You can Ali go open door policy to the CSM which would be a good courtesy. If this PSG is as bad as you describe the CSM will most likely find it very interesting.
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When I hear "EO" a red flag goes up. What situation or what was said or happened to warrant not just a complaint, but an EO complaint?
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SGT Nia Chiaraluce
It orgininated as a simple act of discrimination not based on sex, religion or race; but the new APFU uniform. The directive given was they could not conduct PT with the company if that was the uniform the NCO chose to wear regardless of new regulations. Then the senior leader addressed the company without the NCO present explaining why their actions of wearing them were not appropriate or condusive to the unit. However, my peer was validated in their action of wearing them when the company First Sergeant redployed wearing them two weeks later. The junior NCO didn't report it formally or informally just addressed the concern and the action with the First Sergeant and Commander. Where the issue has arrived at is a case of reprisal which is why they now regret not reporting it. The senior leader involved has completely slandered their name and refuses to let the NCO work in their job role until they PCS. When they sought mentorship the answer given was "suck it up".
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