Posted on Dec 19, 2017
NCO who makes frequent false statements, but uses reg to point of senior leader fear to pursue disciplinary action. What can be done?
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NCO was transferred to our unit, after leaving their place of duty with a serious incident on their watch. Denied all allegations. Since NCO has arrived at new unit they have caused two subordinate soldiers to undergo senior leader punishment after denying knowledge of their where abouts. Has been on an 'extended' detail so any trouble making is far away. However, that does not solve the issue.
Posted 7 y ago
Responses: 11
Your story related does not support the story title.
Lets try this
"NCO who makes frequent false statements"
What are these false statements?
"uses reg to point of senior leader fear to pursue disciplinary action"
Please provide an example of what you mean..something this NCO has observed then threatened his leadership with having violated regs or what has not been done that was required by regs.
Lets try this
"NCO who makes frequent false statements"
What are these false statements?
"uses reg to point of senior leader fear to pursue disciplinary action"
Please provide an example of what you mean..something this NCO has observed then threatened his leadership with having violated regs or what has not been done that was required by regs.
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SPC (Join to see)
The SM was absent from SD when a soldier in barracks was involved in an MP encounter. 1SG of said soldier was called and had to track down the NCO by re calling everyone. When confronted NCO denied all allegations of absence from his place of duty.
This NCO makes EO and IG complaints often, I honestly believe causing a wariness amongst leadership to truly correct them due to no leader is 100% correct all the time. Especially when someone gets excited to be told when something you do is maybe 98% correct.
False statements being fabricating a truth(s). Example of this behavior actually caused by NCO.
E4 Soldier was able to secure a helicopter ride during a training mission for a subordinate medic as way of seeing in action flight medic operations. This E4 was certainly not quite about this achievement and told as many people as he could. However, in presence of other lower enlisted E4 brought it up in conversation to be forwarded to senior leadership by NCO. It allegedly was approved. Later on however, it was revealed CMD and 1SG were not in knowledge base of this. Instead of owning the responsibility the NCO stated "I wasn't told." E4 soldier was punished by letter of reprimand. He ETS'd this November so UCMJ was not pursued with that event being month prior.
This NCO makes EO and IG complaints often, I honestly believe causing a wariness amongst leadership to truly correct them due to no leader is 100% correct all the time. Especially when someone gets excited to be told when something you do is maybe 98% correct.
False statements being fabricating a truth(s). Example of this behavior actually caused by NCO.
E4 Soldier was able to secure a helicopter ride during a training mission for a subordinate medic as way of seeing in action flight medic operations. This E4 was certainly not quite about this achievement and told as many people as he could. However, in presence of other lower enlisted E4 brought it up in conversation to be forwarded to senior leadership by NCO. It allegedly was approved. Later on however, it was revealed CMD and 1SG were not in knowledge base of this. Instead of owning the responsibility the NCO stated "I wasn't told." E4 soldier was punished by letter of reprimand. He ETS'd this November so UCMJ was not pursued with that event being month prior.
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SPC (Join to see)
SM was not punished following the barracks incident. No one in leadership wanted to pursue UCMJ even though the situation was extremely incriminating. Revealing the said wariness of senior leadership to pursue disciplinary action. I do not know what was used or for how long either reg's or just the complaints themselves were used against leadership to cause the wariness. Simply unable to confront or handle the situation, NCO was moved to my unit.
I thank you for your interest in this situation. Trying to remain impartial is very hard since I do work with this NCO. They seem to care about soldiers and the military wishing to make a 20 year investment. They are dedicated to the medical core but are unreliable in any other tasks such as motorpool maintenance. To rely on this NCO has shown that if things go south the subordinates will catch the fire. Overall, from the outside looking in he is an excited U.S Army soldier with high hopes.
I personally hope his behavior can be corrected as going up in the ranks puts more responsibility on the shoulders. I do not wish to see him removed from service since avid SMs are few and far between.
I thank you for your interest in this situation. Trying to remain impartial is very hard since I do work with this NCO. They seem to care about soldiers and the military wishing to make a 20 year investment. They are dedicated to the medical core but are unreliable in any other tasks such as motorpool maintenance. To rely on this NCO has shown that if things go south the subordinates will catch the fire. Overall, from the outside looking in he is an excited U.S Army soldier with high hopes.
I personally hope his behavior can be corrected as going up in the ranks puts more responsibility on the shoulders. I do not wish to see him removed from service since avid SMs are few and far between.
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SPC David Willis
It sounds like your leadership needs a spine. If the MPs were called the responding officers (MPs not commissioned) should have it recorded that he was absent during SD, and to my knowledge there is no regulation that allows you to leave your post. Also the story about the helicopter, it sounds almost as if a helicopter was used without knowledge of higher authority. That's a pretty egregious issue as its a multi million dollar piece of equipment.
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Not sure I'm tracking "senior leader fear to pursue disciplinary action". Do you believe the NCO is somehow threatening the leaders so as to prevent them from taking action against the NCO? Sort of a reversed toxic work environment. Need some more meat on the bones to make any sort of helpful suggestion.
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Sounds more like bitching then pointing out an NCO's failure to do his job. This post is about as clear as mud.
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SPC (Join to see)
Thank you 1SG, I understand the point. I do not want to convey complaining, more of distress. I did my best at answering SGM Marquez questions above if that would give a better impression of what I am attempting to convey.
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1SG Dennis Hicks
Well the information you supplied does give a little more clarity but you have to understand that Soldiers get transferred to different units for many reasons. One of these reasons may have been to put him in a new environment away from the behavior that he complained about. If the NCO is a problem child then the new unit will be able to see it more clearly. Punishment under UCMJ isn’t just charging a Soldier, commanders get advice from the Judge Advocate General on whether the Soldier has done something that can be charged and if the Chain of command has enough to charge the Soldier. Sometimes you give a Soldier the benefit of the doubt which can also be called giving them enough rope to hang themselves.
At your level you may not be aware of any punishment that has occurred, Letter of Reprimand or Comments on this NCO’s NCOER. If this NCO is not doing his job or is doing things that are a violation of the NCO Creed he will eventually pay the price. The 1SG/CDR will not be cowed into submission by manipulations from this NCO. They have been around and they will know how to deal with this. Then again the BN CSM/CDR will eventually hear about this if not already from your CDR/1SG.
In my experience I have seen Soldiers/NCO’s do similar things and they have gotten away with it in the short term only to get jammed up when they felt invincible. You should use this as a training/NCO development example on what not to incorporate into your leadership style down the line or now. You will and have most likely seen some very good NCO’s in your time in uniform and you have now seen at least one that you would not want to exemplify. The NCO Corp is not perfect but it does attempt to self- correct its substandard members on occasion. With so many moving parts things do drop between the boards and a keen eye will assist them in the future. My advice is to continue to watch but stay in your lane and allow your Chain of Command to do their jobs. You don’t want to come across as someone who meddles with their duties.
At your level you may not be aware of any punishment that has occurred, Letter of Reprimand or Comments on this NCO’s NCOER. If this NCO is not doing his job or is doing things that are a violation of the NCO Creed he will eventually pay the price. The 1SG/CDR will not be cowed into submission by manipulations from this NCO. They have been around and they will know how to deal with this. Then again the BN CSM/CDR will eventually hear about this if not already from your CDR/1SG.
In my experience I have seen Soldiers/NCO’s do similar things and they have gotten away with it in the short term only to get jammed up when they felt invincible. You should use this as a training/NCO development example on what not to incorporate into your leadership style down the line or now. You will and have most likely seen some very good NCO’s in your time in uniform and you have now seen at least one that you would not want to exemplify. The NCO Corp is not perfect but it does attempt to self- correct its substandard members on occasion. With so many moving parts things do drop between the boards and a keen eye will assist them in the future. My advice is to continue to watch but stay in your lane and allow your Chain of Command to do their jobs. You don’t want to come across as someone who meddles with their duties.
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