Posted on Jan 14, 2015
SSG Combat Medic
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This weekend me and my GF decided to get out and go to the movies not near any military base once so ever (maybe a Reserve or NG training facility could be near by). So I'm glancing around notice a uniform on a young lady and her hair down with a PT cap on inside of the mall. I didn't loose my mind at first because it could be anyone just wearing the uniform these days. As I get closer to her I notice she has on SPC rank. I told my GF that I have to say something to her and of course she didn't understand. When I approached the SPC and her civilian male acquaintance, I asked her was she in the Army and she quickly replied "yes". So I asked her did she know she was in complete violation of Army Regs she says "yes". The female rolled her eyes at me and I could tell she was going to have
a attitude with me so I quickly removed myself from the situation. So at what point do we as leaders make a on the spot correction in public or remove ourselves from the situation? I felt at the time as a NCO I should have done more to make her fix herself, but on the other hand I didn't want to make a scene at the mall and in public. SPC Ware I definitely will remember you forever.
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SFC Military Police
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Edited >1 y ago
At least you had the professionalism to go up to her and attempt to fix the situation. Far too many Soldiers, Leaders, etc... are so introverted these days that they would rather turn the blind eye to it than make a correction which is why these violators get away with it.
If you were in the right, which you were, there isn't a thing she or her friend could have done about it. I would have given her the opportunity to move to a private location so we could discuss the infraction without publicly humiliating her. Had she chosen otherwise, well then you would have seen a Sergeant do what Sergeants are supposed to do.
We are the standard bearers and if we aren't going to fix the problems, who is? The problem is when the leaders themselves are not educated enough on the regs to make the correction and fear embarrassing themselves.
Much like the other day when I was doing PT and I had my fleece cap folded up around the bottom, as I have done for years. Some young SSG, God bless his heart was doing what he thought was the right thing, however his delivery method was wrong. He yelled " hey you, fix your F#%@ing cap". So I stopped to see to whom he was speaking and when he pointed at me and said " yeah you" and repeated his first request I felt it was my duty to mentor him.
So, since he decided to put himself out there in public such as he did I just had to correct him in public, not only for his unprofessional use of profanity but also his lack of knowledge of 670-1.
In summary, if you KNOW the reg make the correction, if you do not, LEARN IT or you are going to get embarrassed.
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SGT Infantryman
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Ask to see her ID and get their information at a minumum, that way you can track them down and make their COC aware of the encounter. The on the spot correction has to be made though. You were worried about the possible consequences of your actions in a public setting, should have been more worried about the perception that she was giving everyone who saw her. Also, as a SSG you should never need to question whether or notto male a correction, that is what you get paid to do. So on this...my take away is, and what she knows now, is that someone got their E6 and doesn't have the backbone for the job. We all need a boot im the ass from time to time. Adjust your point of aim SSG.
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SSG Fred Campbell
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You are a Soldier 24/7, as well as an NCO. You should have pulled her aside, made the correction, if she wanted to get butthurt, then jack it to the next level, her Chain of Concern, never back down, you are within regulations, as well have the backing of UCMJ....
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SMSgt Stephen Winner
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Unfortunately, we cannot "jack them up" anymore. We might "offend" them, hurt their feelings, etc. The libtards in charge have allowed a steady deterioration of discipline, and common sense. We are so screwed!
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CSM Stuart C. O'Black
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Edited >1 y ago
AR 600-20: All persons in the military service are required to strictly obey and promptly execute the legal orders of their lawful seniors. Take action consistent with Army regulation in any case where a Soldier’s conduct violates good order and military discipline.

Para 4-4: When military police are not present, the senior officer, WO, or NCO present will obtain the Soldier’s name, grade, social security number, organization, and station. The information and a statement of the circumstances will be sent to the Soldier’s commanding officer without delay.

**You can actually detain and arrest in extreme cases.

Para 4-5: Officers, WOs, NCOs, and petty officers of the Armed Forces are authorized and directed to quell all quarrels, frays, and disorders among persons subject to military law and to apprehend participants. Those exercising this authority should do so with judgment and tact. Personnel so apprehended will be returned to the jurisdiction of their respective Service as soon as practical. Confinement of females will be according to AR 190–47.

Thoughts:

We never remove ourselves from the situation. She is wrong and you have an obligation to correct. SMSgt Thomas does as I usually do - if there are family members present I pull them aside. If not I make the correction on the spot. Remember, every time you pass by an issue and don't correct and fix then you have set a new standard. You just told her she was right and reinforced her opinion.

What could be worse is if someone sees you walk by and not fix an issue as a NCO. We will go through extraordinary measures for our battles downrange and even risk our lives for one another. However, we get home it seems like some battles won't even set each other straight.

CSM OB
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SGT Steve Edwards
SGT Steve Edwards
>1 y
Well said!
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SSG Keith Chavey
SSG Keith Chavey
>1 y
CSM , with all due respect, regulations exist in order for an orderly execution of our mission at hand..a uniform violation, (while upsetting, and most certainly disrespectful, and absolutely inconsistent with military discipline , I don't feel is deserving of confinement) I feel it is a matter for the chain of command to handle such discipline matters..obviously her specific commander should be notified and she should be held accountable ..as should her leadership for fostering such behavior..
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Cpl Michael Mosley
Cpl Michael Mosley
>1 y
I disagree SSG Chavey, It is our Duty as servicemen and woman to take care of our own and should not set out to go up the chain of command when the situation can and should have been taken care of right there. If your an NCO, you have big shoes to fill, if you can't simply take care of a servicewoman out of Uniform Regulation out in the Civilian world than what else are you weak at. In the USMC becoming an NCO means a lot, you have to work hard at knowing proper regulations which you should have already known from Basic and continuously learning how to be an effective Leader. Anyone can become an NCO but can you fill those shoes?
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CSM Stuart C. O'Black
CSM Stuart C. O'Black
>1 y
SSG Chavey I was not saying confine the Soldier in terms of "jail". You have the authority to hold the Soldier until the COC or MPs can come. I have seen Soldiers disrespectful to NCOs and the NCO was unsure what to do. It is in the NCOs authority to hold/confine the individual until further action can be taken. However, if public escalation is a concern then like you said I am sure the COC can be notified and take appropriate action. To include refusal to obey a lawful order. Thanks for your comment.
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CW3 Battalion Operations Officer (S3)
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Quietly pulling them away from any civilian travelers they have with them is the right answer. I travel TDY a lot and spend a lot of time in airports. This is one of the biggest places you see problems. Normally, the ones that are jacked up are not traveling alone. If in civilian clothes (as I am 99% of the time when traveling, I will grab a random Soldier in uniform (normally someone of peer level that I want to make the correction on), introduce myself, point out the infraction and ask him/her to go fix it. This keeps it from having to be confrontational and teaches a few lessons. 1. you never know who is watching 2. the Soldier I grab to explain what is wrong gets a lesson in on the spot corrections, and looking out for their fellow Soldier 3. It is normally less embarrassing to the Soldier when it comes from a peer who says "hey, that Chief Warrant Officer over there just pointed out X and asked me to come fix you. Non-confrontational, correction made, lesson learned. The only way I feel the need to interact personally is if I cannot find another Soldier (preferably NCO) or the Soldier blows off the correction.
It's not the way, but a way. Many times in airports, Soldiers actually don't know better, especially when it is a group that has just finished basic training and headed for AIT. Drill Sergeants don't think to teach Soldiers about not walking through the airport with your Beats headphones around your neck - that is definitely not an issue in BCT, because they don't have that stuff. Either way, most of the time, Soldiers want to do the right thing, they just need to be afforded the opportunity to be reminded of what right looks like.
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TSgt David Rigby
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I had something similar when I was on emergency leave in my hometown, a good 70 miles from any military base, and the nearest being a Guard base. I saw an Airman walking around in Wal-Mart in his ABUs with his girl, talking on the phone, with his hand in his pocket. My wife saw the look on my face, and just said to be nice! :) I was in civilian clothes, and after I introduced myself I asked him what 36-2903 said about walking with your hands in your pockets. He said that he wasn't supposed to, but no one there knew any better so he did anyway! I asked him what his definition of integrity was, to which he replied doing what is right even when no one is looking. So I asked him, how was he demonstrating his integrity? He corrected himself and apologized. I left him by reminding him that to most people, HE was the only Air Force they would ever see!
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SSG Carl Sensabaugh II
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After she said yes to knowing she was violating the regs, I would have identified myself and asked her to step away from the others. Then get all her information, made the correction and let her be (also notified her chain the next business day). If she refused to ID herself. I would have then just dropped it but try to find out where she is stationed and notified her chain.
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MSG Instructor/Writer
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Edited >1 y ago
There is regulatory guidance on this. I had a similar situation happen recently to include a public place and attitude. I backed off once it became apparent it would create a scene.

I noted the unit patch, name and rank of the individual. I looked him up in the global using the advanced search (to narrow down rank and unit quickly). Once I had a full name, I put his name in facebook to verify it was him. Then I called his S1. After about 5 minutes I had his 1SGs email. I notified the 1SG and he emailed back that he would square away the troop. The bottom line is, the squeeze was worth the juice. The Soldier needed discipline... NCO's are required by regulation (law) to enforce standards. PERIOD.

So here is the reg: FM 7-22.7, para 2-35.
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SGM Robin Johnson
SGM Robin Johnson
>1 y
Good on you, SFC Romero, for knowing your NCO guideline FM. However, that is not regulatory in nature. Just for your future reference, your authority and regulatory guidance comes from AR 600-20, Army Command Policy. For this, specifically see chapter 4, and paragraph 4-6 addresses on-the-spot corrections. AR 600-20 is pretty short, and if you read it at this point in your career it will really serve you well.
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MSG Instructor/Writer
MSG (Join to see)
>1 y
Thanks for the info, SGM! I'll take some time to dig into AR 600-20.
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SSG Richard Brue
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You ask for her unit and first line supervisor. Then you let her know that it does not matter if she is on or off duty, UCMJ still applies. If she wants to have an attitude, her 1st SGT can always be brought into this.
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