On the spot corrections in public; when is it appropriate?

It is truly sad to see the Army change in the ways that it has. Soldiers back-talking and questioning NCOs, attitudes given for on the spot corrections, and many other things that show that we, as the backbone of our Army, are failing to be leaders.
When I came into the Army, I made sure of many things before going out;
1. If I was going out, I wasn't in uniform... I couldn't wait to get it off of me.
2. If I had to wear a uniform, I made sure that it was correct, because you never know who you are going to run into (I actually ran into the Garrison CSM for Fort Carson at Laguardia Airport in New York during a layover... fortunately I wasn't in uniform)
3. If someone did correct me on a deficiency, I went to parade rest, listened to them, and fixed it... no sass or attitude given... because like I stated in the second point, you don't know who you are going to run into and until they identify themselves, you don't know who they are.
I did these things for several reasons... Respect, Pride, and FEAR!!!
We had discipline because we both respected and feared our NCOs. And EVERY NCO had each other's back... NCOs did not take sides, they did not care if another NCO made a correction that they missed, and they smoked the DOG SHIT out of us when we were ate-up.
Now, it's the other way around! It seems like our Army has developed into a place where NCOs are AFRAID to do their job. They are afraid to lay down the hammer because a Joe might complain about it. There are SO many programs in effect now that "protect" the Junior Enlisted that it makes my job, as well as every other NCO, almost impossible.
These new policies do not protect anyone. This is the FUCKING ARMY!!! If someone hurts your feelings or inconveniences you, drink your cup of "Huah" and drive the fuck on...
Soldiers are smart. They will always find ways to bend the rules to meet their wants. There will always be people who abuse legitimate programs (AER, SHARP, EO) which winds up making things worse for everyone.

With all that said, I am done venting... and to answer your question, you should have asked to see her Military ID. Write her name and get her unit... Even if you do nothing with it, she will know that you are not playing around and not just hassling her. Or you could have explained to her that while she is in uniform, she is a liaison for the US Army, and that she should take pride in being in the correct uniform. When I see soldiers off-post in an incorrect uniform, my mind goes immediately to stolen valor.
The next thing that you could remind her is that as a representative of the Army, every civilian there looks at her like she is a Superhero. She needs to play the part and get in the right superhero costume or take it off and never wear it again. Go home and get right.
In case you can't tell, I'm not afraid any more. I have been through the worst the Army can do when someone falsely accuses me of something... I have worked hard to get back to where I am at now and I am better for having been through it and bouncing back. No fear left.

Ask for her 1st SGT's name and unit. Tell her of her short comings and how the "civilians of this great nation appreciates her service!". Follow up with her unit's first sergeant. No real right answer...but wrong is wrong.....right

Just remember where YOU are, some places will not tolerate you causing a problem no matter how right you are.

SMS Thomas. If they get mouthy, take a pic and report it to base commander.

While there are exceptions to this rule, "only on base", is it allowed, but not off base....you should never want to be seen off base with a uniform on....

I would have pulled the soldier to side and corrected her, furthermore if she displayed an attitude i would have informed her that there are consequences on and off the military installation. We all have a reponsibility to conduct ourselves accordingly. Furthermore NCO’s and officer command at all times..

I think you did the right thing in making the correction. Hopefully she will think better of it before going out next time. It is up to her. I remember coming out of Penn Station in Manhattan back in 1980 in my Navy dress blues (Crackerjacks) with no cover on. I heard someone behind me yell, "Sailor, where is your cover!". I quickly reached into my pocket and got out my Dixie Cup. Never saw who called after me, but never forgot again to always where my uniform properly with pride.

She not a solider cuz a true one would be in compliance

I would have took her out side remove both from the situation and corrected her... If she gave attitude then pulled my cat card smoked her all then stopped the army is getting soft..... I got smoked for dumb crap like that

I'm an Army Veteran, and when I was in ('88 to '91), if troop wasn't correct, he would be standing tall before "the Man". That's how it should continue to be, try the polite respectful way BUT as soon as there is attitude, or disrespectful body language, now its time to get in that A**, and remind them of just who they are talking too....period!

If you are going to be in uniform there is an expectation that if you are violating army regulations than you are inviting fellow Soldiers to correct you.

I say it's pretty much always appropriate, and I say pretty much because tact is important, especially when you are in civilians, granted rolling eyes and getting an attitude should not happen, and the above situation could have escalated rather quickly, but the SSG in the above situation did not seem to be wrong in the way nor in what he did, that Specialist was definitely wrong for getting attitude.

I think all you could have done is to get her ID and unit. Then snap a picture of her in her attire with your phone and show it to her command. Since she know's she's in violation and doesn't care there's really nothing you can do about it in a public, civilian place.

Civilians will take her side because they strongly believe everyone has a right to dress as they wish. However, upon entering the Army, this little girl relinquished her right to self-expression through her wardrobe and is subject to UCMJ, which the civilians around her just won't understand. So, you'd just end up making a scene and being made to look like a complete asshole. There's simply no reason to allow yourself to appear thata way to civilians because you're better than that.

I agree with everything SMSgt Minister Gerald A. Thomas had to say. I also feel like it's a shame that 1SGT Joe Nicholson came at the NCO so aggressively and took SMSgt response so personally. RallyPoint is a forum where we all have the right to express our opinions and no one should ever feel that they have to stop commenting on a topic they care about because someone wants to argue with them.

I would have done the same because I am only a spc. Myself. I would however do my and reported it to her first line leas er. As a spc I have been a team leader in combat and state side. I appreciated it when people brought it to me instead of handling themselves.

I would have had to correct her. This is a negative outlook on the Army. We have standards for a reason, I tell my Soldiers all the time. No one put a gun to your head to join, so if you have an issue with the rules and regulations, then you can easily be removed from your position. Uncle Sam doesn't need that many bodies anymore.

I agree with all of the responses. Introduce yourself ask for her unit and CO. 99% of the time just a asking those questions will persuade them to take corrective measures and will not have to take it any further.

I feel that anytime is the correct time. First of all, if the young lady was as proud of the uniform as I was, and the soldiers I served with she would have not been wearing it incorrectly in public.
She put herself into an embarrassing situation, maybe the humiliation of being called out would prevent it from happening again. I have a similar problem here in civilian life, guys are told to button their shirts or tuck them in. Their is response is that they are not on the clock, my response is that we have a locker room, my response is "start bringing your street clothes to work and change in and out of them before you leave the building."
It's about having pride in what you do, and where you work.
I do believe as an NCO you should have absolutely called her out. Whether in private or public would have been her choice, depending on attitude.
SCOUTS OUT.

I would've corrected her in a calm, collective civilized manner. I also would've told her that there's no point in getting upset because I know you know better and left it like that.

If you were in uniform, she would have paid more attention to you but if you are in civilian clothes it's not a good idea to say much more than "square yourself away." Police officers seldom attempt to make an arrest in civilian clothes, perception is a powerful motivator.

Wow, this forum and the pot shots being taken by those who post are truly not value added at all. Makes one not want to share an opinion (right, wrong, or otherwise).

Am I the only person who's wondering why this soldier is even going to the movies in uniform in the first place?

I've been stationed at plenty of posts where they conduct IET (Benning, Jackson, Eustis) and I've never even seen AIT troops in uniform when they have an off-post pass. The only exception would be BT privates on graduation day, but they have to wear Class As.

I think the only time I went to a movie theater in uniform was during a Graf rotation, and I didn't have to leave the cantonment area for that.

I try to keep in mind that I would not want anyone to disrespect me in front of my family and act accordingly. Sometimes it woks out well other times it doesn't.. But either way I sleep better knowing I said something.

You did the right thing by approaching her and it is good that you didn't make a scene around civilians. Maybe you could have asked her if it bothered her that she was representing the Army in a negative way.

The saddest thing is that she knows she's out of regs in a public place, where people might look at her and think she represents the military, and doesn't care. Some people think the military is just a 9-5 job where they are sometimes inconvenienced to do things like field problems or deployments. I remember having to wrestle with the question of whether the Army is a profession or not. With continual learning, a core ethical standard, and the fact that we police our own ranks, you could say it is. When you get a service member who blatantly disregards regulations or tenets they are supposed to live by, than they are making an argument for the contrary. I hope she fixes herself, but I really don't have that much faith that she will. Sometimes people need to remember they joined the Military, and said they would abide by it's rules. The military didn't come and join me.

If you are truly still on active duty status and or possess a valid military ID the has you name and rank on it, you should have corrected her and pointed out her mistakes and gotten the information of her NCOIC to inform him/her about their soldier's blatant disrespect of the Army reg.

If you did not make the correction you did not deserve your rank. The regulations are their for a reason. In the Corps if I saw someone like that I always asked them for their ID. Then I would ask what unit they were in and report them to their 1st Sgt.

First thing that pops in my mind is why would you go to the movies in uniform? Not that i dont have pride in my uniform but, but as soon as i didn't need it on i took it off.

I would like to make a response to this. I served in the AF as an SP from 90-94. There was never a doubt in a respect level from the Lowest to the highest Rank with in the CoC. However I now have a son in the Army still in school at Ft.Lee (94H). He is a bright young Soldier. I am proud of him. He told me stories out of Basic, that literally scared the shit out of me. The Army higher NCO have Zero respect for Capts. and Below. He sited many instances in front of recruits in which a DS would belittle a Company Commander after he or she left a formation or inspection. This never happened in the AF when I served. I wonder if this is a fundamental break down across the board starting at the Basic Training level. Or is the Army Standards so low that they are dragging the bottom of the barely of humanity to fill their ranks. I am not being disrespectful. But I feel an interesting point and question to this debate.

The fact that she understood that she was out of regs and didn't care reflects poorly on her own chain of command, not really on you. In my opinion, if you are an NCO you have earned the right to correct soldiers who knowingly and flagrantly violate AR 670-1. However, I think you made the proper call to not scuff her up in public, as that could have potentially reflected poorly on you and drawn negative attention to the uniform. Possibly, pulling her aside to discuss the regs and why she didn't care may have been your best best, but I don't know the entire situation, such as the amount of time your had to make the correction. All in all, you did the right thing.

Always. Never hesitate to correct when due. ts a new Army theses days. Roling her eyes is a form of disrespect towards any one of a higher rank. First introduce yourself ( Show them your military ID card)pull the person to the side explain and ask her what unit shes in. If she refuses to then get her information and Im sure that you can find out what unit shes in by obtaining that information. The lack of respect and discipline is overwhelming theses days.

Yea as an ex Army Sgt. I would have pulled her aside, and explained to her first off......just because you may not be "working" you represent our Military....where ever you are 24-7 365. So I suggest you fix yourself, and go read the AR 670-1. I also would have found out who her NCO was and told him/her about it. and as far as rolling her eyes at me....that would have pissed me off. if she was my soldier she would be made an example....she would know the regulations really well! :)

You did what you were suppose to.. be that reminder. Then move along. No need for a scene, it was obvious that they lacked the basic discipline to do what is right.

Maybe a gentle reminder that she should go use the restroom to square away what she did have one..but then they might have pulled out the stress card or reported you for harassment.

Do you part and lead by example.

I ran into a situation sort of like this once. I was at the mall and there where several reservist walking around. One had on a fluffy white polo jacket. As I approached I noticed she was standing next to a SSG, so assuming he was possibly her team or squad leader I introduced myself and asked if I could have a word with him. He indulged me and I asked him about the soldier...to which he replied by basically telling me to F*** off and I had no business correcting other peoples soldiers. I at that point really had no idea what to do being that he outranked me and was allowing his soldier to completely ignore the standards.

Times like this made me glad I had left the army. I am not an NCO, but still, that's just wrong (and a total violation of the Army Regulation - AR 670-1 - as well as the UCMJ for disrespecting an NCO). She could have worn civilian clothes and roll her eyes when he approached her and we would not know the better (unless they both are stationed within the same company, battalion, duty station where they see each other day in and day out).

I have a tendency of losing it when I see someone disgrace the uniform as such; and even more when they cop an attitude with me knowing they are in the wrong as I was trying to be nice about it.

Good thing I never done stuff like that as I take great pride when I was in the service; and I still do to this day.

It seems the soldier is going to a movie. My guess is wearing the uniform to possibly get a discount. Still wrong and I say you should have made the correction.

As an NCO, you must use wisdom, but I believe you do have an obligation to guide and correct those under you. In this situation, I believe you acted appropriately in calling her attention to it, yet not making a scene. Too bad you couldn't follow up with her CO.

When I was a young officer (O3), I was out of reg in an airport. An O6 politely but firmly reprimanded me. Though his reproof stung, I never forgot it, and his reprimand stuck.

I cant stand seeing things like this in public it even annoys me to see it on a TV show or movie, but anyhow I think the best way to handle the situation considering you are not on duty or in uniform I would show the individual your military identification ask them if their in the military as you did and ask what unit they are from and then notify them of what they are doing wrong off to the side. If they give attitude and don't comply you use the information about her unit and notify her chain of command. PFC REDMAN

You try to do the right thing and step off out of ear shot.. and if they don't want to do that then you correct them right there. But always maintain a professional attitude about it Don't loose your mind on them.

I was a young PO3 in the USN. I was relaxing in a public area and removed my cover. It was a Long hot day, I had competed my daily tour and was just taking a moment for ME.

I CPO (Not in Our Squadron), approached me as I relaxed. He asked if I was stationed at Coronado, and who my Command CO/XO, and CPO were. He quickly went on to state how well I looked in my Uniform. Then asked if I had intended to purposely disrespect the Men/Women that went before me in UNIFORM, and if I didn't appreciate WHY I wore the UNIFORM, he would be glad to inform My Command, so they may instruct me in Proper protocol.

My 1st thought was to ignore his "POLITE DEMEANOR" ( we all know how a CPO can be should he be RILED), I chose instead to RESPECT the CPO for his consideration and TIME to stop and present me the OPPORTUNITY to REFLECT on my DUTIES and RESPONSIBILITIES as a Military NCO on my personal time in UNIFORM in PUBLIC. I represented ALL the MEN/WOMEN at that moment.

The Following Morning @ O6:45 Monday at COMMAND MUSTER... My name was called out by "THE COMMAND CPO". He informed me in-front of the COMMAND about my encounter with the CPO I had on Friday afternoon.

The COMMAND CPO then proceeded to inform me of WHO the CPO was ( who stopped to talk to me)... and how WELL RESPECTED the CPO was in the U.S. NAVY. ( Needless to say I was thankful for my decision to be RESPECTFUL/MINDFUL and Courteous to the CPO) ...

And in-case you were wondering....YES.. I still had KP for the WEEK. But I had the opportunity to GROW as a MAN in UNIFORM !