On the spot corrections in public; when is it appropriate?

As an NCO that is now out of the Army, I feel like I spend the majority of my weekends making on the spot corrections to all of the national guard kids when they are in town. I don't care if its a major or minor violation, the correction needs to be made. I do try to be friendly when making initial contact and I usually end up matching my attitude with theirs, which tends to spiral out of control because they think I'm just some dumb civilian try to mess with them. I have found the people that have the hardest time being corrected by me are the lower enlisted while the senior enlisted and officers tend to be more thankful for my corrections.

Are you still in? Did you ID yourself? That usually makes the recipient display a little less attitude. That said, I think it's good to police ourselves even if we aren't active anymore, I've done it before for soldiers loudly using profane language on a commercial airline (I was off active). If you are on some kind of duty status (active/guard/reserve) I would hope you wouldn't have walked away because of an eye roll. The first line of defense in slipping standards is the NCO corps, if you let it slide, who is going to pick up the slack?

My opinion is that we should be proud to wear the uniform. This is what we were taught in boot camp, so I think it is only right to wear it right. She should respect the person who politely tells her to correct herself because she does not know your rank. I am sure that those watching would understand that the military is not a place for slackers. Honor, courage, commitment.

Technically (depending on local rules and regulations as stated) This is all covered by UCMJ Articles 91 and 92. You identify yourself by name and rank (show your I.D. if need be) and go from there. I know at several installations throughout the U.S. it is a CO order to produce your military I.D. if asked.

I wear the Uniform in Pride, because of the men and women that died in all the previous wars give me the right to defend my Country, Constitution, Flag, and Oath while wearing it. To Dishonor them and me by not complying is a violation Of the Military Code of Conduct. I would have asked her to step outside and formally discussed my rank, her appearance and her disrespect for all others that Share that Uniform and I would have put her on Report to the Military authorities, if she did not comply. Self Respect has to be foremost while wearing the Uniform of the United States Military. Appearance counts on how people think of us. SFC Daniel T. Marthers Retired.

I would have asked her what unit she was with, , then ask to see her ID card, take a photo and give it to her chain of command ... dysfunctional idiots.

SSG Robinson,
At that point I believe that she was not going to correct herself and that's the way some Soldiers are these days. Somewhere she has a leader that is allowing her to do this on a regular basis so don't beat yourself up too bad about it. The thing for you is to instill in your Soldiers that it will be tolerated in your formation and make the correction if it does. Some Soldiers believe that since they are not engaged in the "regular hours of work 0630-1630" that they off duty. Guess what!! you are never off duty!!. Continue to make those corrections.

I would have offered her the opportunity to excuse herself to the ladies room in order to fix her appearance. If she declined, I would have detained her. Called her First Sergeant. Informed him/her about the appearance of his/her soldier. I would inform the First Sergeant and recommend charges be filed under Article 92 and 134. Maybe this SPC is a screw up and one more strike and she is out. Maybe she is just having a bad day. Not my concern. My creed dictates, "I will exert every effort and risk any ridicule to successfully accomplish my assigned duties." An NCO's duty is to enforce standards and discipline!

Plain and simple, regardless of your rank or theirs, you should always make the correction in a tactful manner.

At least you had the professionalism to go up to her and attempt to fix the situation. Far too many Soldiers, Leaders, etc... are so introverted these days that they would rather turn the blind eye to it than make a correction which is why these violators get away with it.
If you were in the right, which you were, there isn't a thing she or her friend could have done about it. I would have given her the opportunity to move to a private location so we could discuss the infraction without publicly humiliating her. Had she chosen otherwise, well then you would have seen a Sergeant do what Sergeants are supposed to do.
We are the standard bearers and if we aren't going to fix the problems, who is? The problem is when the leaders themselves are not educated enough on the regs to make the correction and fear embarrassing themselves.
Much like the other day when I was doing PT and I had my fleece cap folded up around the bottom, as I have done for years. Some young SSG, God bless his heart was doing what he thought was the right thing, however his delivery method was wrong. He yelled " hey you, fix your F#%@ing cap". So I stopped to see to whom he was speaking and when he pointed at me and said " yeah you" and repeated his first request I felt it was my duty to mentor him.
So, since he decided to put himself out there in public such as he did I just had to correct him in public, not only for his unprofessional use of profanity but also his lack of knowledge of 670-1.
In summary, if you KNOW the reg make the correction, if you do not, LEARN IT or you are going to get embarrassed.

Ask to see her ID and get their information at a minumum, that way you can track them down and make their COC aware of the encounter. The on the spot correction has to be made though. You were worried about the possible consequences of your actions in a public setting, should have been more worried about the perception that she was giving everyone who saw her. Also, as a SSG you should never need to question whether or notto male a correction, that is what you get paid to do. So on this...my take away is, and what she knows now, is that someone got their E6 and doesn't have the backbone for the job. We all need a boot im the ass from time to time. Adjust your point of aim SSG.

You are a Soldier 24/7, as well as an NCO. You should have pulled her aside, made the correction, if she wanted to get butthurt, then jack it to the next level, her Chain of Concern, never back down, you are within regulations, as well have the backing of UCMJ....

Unfortunately, we cannot "jack them up" anymore. We might "offend" them, hurt their feelings, etc. The libtards in charge have allowed a steady deterioration of discipline, and common sense. We are so screwed!

AR 600-20: All persons in the military service are required to strictly obey and promptly execute the legal orders of their lawful seniors. Take action consistent with Army regulation in any case where a Soldier’s conduct violates good order and military discipline.

Para 4-4: When military police are not present, the senior officer, WO, or NCO present will obtain the Soldier’s name, grade, social security number, organization, and station. The information and a statement of the circumstances will be sent to the Soldier’s commanding officer without delay.

**You can actually detain and arrest in extreme cases.

Para 4-5: Officers, WOs, NCOs, and petty officers of the Armed Forces are authorized and directed to quell all quarrels, frays, and disorders among persons subject to military law and to apprehend participants. Those exercising this authority should do so with judgment and tact. Personnel so apprehended will be returned to the jurisdiction of their respective Service as soon as practical. Confinement of females will be according to AR 190–47.

Thoughts:

We never remove ourselves from the situation. She is wrong and you have an obligation to correct. SMSgt Thomas does as I usually do - if there are family members present I pull them aside. If not I make the correction on the spot. Remember, every time you pass by an issue and don't correct and fix then you have set a new standard. You just told her she was right and reinforced her opinion.

What could be worse is if someone sees you walk by and not fix an issue as a NCO. We will go through extraordinary measures for our battles downrange and even risk our lives for one another. However, we get home it seems like some battles won't even set each other straight.

CSM OB

Quietly pulling them away from any civilian travelers they have with them is the right answer. I travel TDY a lot and spend a lot of time in airports. This is one of the biggest places you see problems. Normally, the ones that are jacked up are not traveling alone. If in civilian clothes (as I am 99% of the time when traveling, I will grab a random Soldier in uniform (normally someone of peer level that I want to make the correction on), introduce myself, point out the infraction and ask him/her to go fix it. This keeps it from having to be confrontational and teaches a few lessons. 1. you never know who is watching 2. the Soldier I grab to explain what is wrong gets a lesson in on the spot corrections, and looking out for their fellow Soldier 3. It is normally less embarrassing to the Soldier when it comes from a peer who says "hey, that Chief Warrant Officer over there just pointed out X and asked me to come fix you. Non-confrontational, correction made, lesson learned. The only way I feel the need to interact personally is if I cannot find another Soldier (preferably NCO) or the Soldier blows off the correction.
It's not the way, but a way. Many times in airports, Soldiers actually don't know better, especially when it is a group that has just finished basic training and headed for AIT. Drill Sergeants don't think to teach Soldiers about not walking through the airport with your Beats headphones around your neck - that is definitely not an issue in BCT, because they don't have that stuff. Either way, most of the time, Soldiers want to do the right thing, they just need to be afforded the opportunity to be reminded of what right looks like.

I had something similar when I was on emergency leave in my hometown, a good 70 miles from any military base, and the nearest being a Guard base. I saw an Airman walking around in Wal-Mart in his ABUs with his girl, talking on the phone, with his hand in his pocket. My wife saw the look on my face, and just said to be nice! :) I was in civilian clothes, and after I introduced myself I asked him what 36-2903 said about walking with your hands in your pockets. He said that he wasn't supposed to, but no one there knew any better so he did anyway! I asked him what his definition of integrity was, to which he replied doing what is right even when no one is looking. So I asked him, how was he demonstrating his integrity? He corrected himself and apologized. I left him by reminding him that to most people, HE was the only Air Force they would ever see!

After she said yes to knowing she was violating the regs, I would have identified myself and asked her to step away from the others. Then get all her information, made the correction and let her be (also notified her chain the next business day). If she refused to ID herself. I would have then just dropped it but try to find out where she is stationed and notified her chain.

There is regulatory guidance on this. I had a similar situation happen recently to include a public place and attitude. I backed off once it became apparent it would create a scene.

I noted the unit patch, name and rank of the individual. I looked him up in the global using the advanced search (to narrow down rank and unit quickly). Once I had a full name, I put his name in facebook to verify it was him. Then I called his S1. After about 5 minutes I had his 1SGs email. I notified the 1SG and he emailed back that he would square away the troop. The bottom line is, the squeeze was worth the juice. The Soldier needed discipline... NCO's are required by regulation (law) to enforce standards. PERIOD.

So here is the reg: FM 7-22.7, para 2-35.

You ask for her unit and first line supervisor. Then you let her know that it does not matter if she is on or off duty, UCMJ still applies. If she wants to have an attitude, her 1st SGT can always be brought into this.