Posted on Jan 14, 2015
On the spot corrections in public; when is it appropriate?
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This weekend me and my GF decided to get out and go to the movies not near any military base once so ever (maybe a Reserve or NG training facility could be near by). So I'm glancing around notice a uniform on a young lady and her hair down with a PT cap on inside of the mall. I didn't loose my mind at first because it could be anyone just wearing the uniform these days. As I get closer to her I notice she has on SPC rank. I told my GF that I have to say something to her and of course she didn't understand. When I approached the SPC and her civilian male acquaintance, I asked her was she in the Army and she quickly replied "yes". So I asked her did she know she was in complete violation of Army Regs she says "yes". The female rolled her eyes at me and I could tell she was going to have
a attitude with me so I quickly removed myself from the situation. So at what point do we as leaders make a on the spot correction in public or remove ourselves from the situation? I felt at the time as a NCO I should have done more to make her fix herself, but on the other hand I didn't want to make a scene at the mall and in public. SPC Ware I definitely will remember you forever.
a attitude with me so I quickly removed myself from the situation. So at what point do we as leaders make a on the spot correction in public or remove ourselves from the situation? I felt at the time as a NCO I should have done more to make her fix herself, but on the other hand I didn't want to make a scene at the mall and in public. SPC Ware I definitely will remember you forever.
Regulation
Mentorship
Leadership
Professionalism
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 709
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Crazy! I would've told her she needed to fix her self. Tactfully that is... I would have noted her name and unit...
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1. Use of tact is always a good idea.
2. Treat people with dignity and respect, despite their cognitive shortfalls.
3. Correcting shortfalls and deficiencies is an implied task for all leaders.
4. Refer to #1.
2. Treat people with dignity and respect, despite their cognitive shortfalls.
3. Correcting shortfalls and deficiencies is an implied task for all leaders.
4. Refer to #1.
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SSG Robinson, this is not a new problem. Unfortunately, it is an embarrassing issue when happening in a public venue such as this. The photo is shocking - also unfortunately. The bottom line is that you are obligated to make an on-the-spot correction. The recommended approach, of course, is to ask the soldier to step to the side and talk one-on-one so as to not unnecessarily embarrass her, yourself, or your Army. A recommendation would be to get her name and unit. At that point, you can address the issue at a later time by "looking the solider up" using today's technology. The cool thing about having a rank and a name on the green Army cold weather outerwear is that it provides a basic starting point for searches. Keep in mind that it is absolutely immaterial as to whether the Soldier is a Specialist, a Master Sergeant, a Major, or male or female, etc. The person is a Solder and deserves your attention.
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MSgt (Join to see)
I'll give you embarrassing: my step-son, partially seen in my avatar, had just completed AIT and we were heading to the PX for lunch when a retiree stopped his truck in the parking lot right next to him, jumped out and "adjusted" my stepson's no-so sharp-looking uniform. The man looked at me, winked and drove off. I should've corrected my step-son. I could've saved us both the embarrassment. That was my failure.
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I would think that uniform regulations should be corrected especially when off base, unfortunately the days of old school correction are gone. It seems some of today's military personnel have such a low standard for themselves. They know there is only so much that will happen to them and are willing to disrespect themselves and the uniform. Corrections should always be attempted in my opinion by a higher ranking member
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GySgt Joe Johnston
THERE WAS A TIME WHEN U LEFT THE BASE U HAD TO WEAR CIVILIAN CLOTHING
AT CERTAIN BASES THAT IS.OR THE CIVILIANS WOULD KILL YOUR ASS...OF COURSE
THIS WAS IN A FOREIGN COUNTRY.IF U WERE IN THE SERVICE U WILL KNOW WHICH COUNTRY I'M TALKING ABOUT.1948,49.50,51....
AT CERTAIN BASES THAT IS.OR THE CIVILIANS WOULD KILL YOUR ASS...OF COURSE
THIS WAS IN A FOREIGN COUNTRY.IF U WERE IN THE SERVICE U WILL KNOW WHICH COUNTRY I'M TALKING ABOUT.1948,49.50,51....
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That depends on how far you want to take it. Just remember that it is up to her chain of command to do anything about her behavior (any significant action to cause an impact to her career anyway).
Initial action should be saying something like "Thank you for your service." Then say something along the line "My so and so family member was serving in this branch of service..." Then ask the typical questions like what unit, what rank, and so on to know who she really is. By now, she shouldn't have any reason to provide any false information. Would you?
You can figure out the rest on what to do. You can ask her to show you her ID. But what if she isn't going to? Are you prepared to make a scene in a public place because of this? So on and so on.
Act accordingly.
Initial action should be saying something like "Thank you for your service." Then say something along the line "My so and so family member was serving in this branch of service..." Then ask the typical questions like what unit, what rank, and so on to know who she really is. By now, she shouldn't have any reason to provide any false information. Would you?
You can figure out the rest on what to do. You can ask her to show you her ID. But what if she isn't going to? Are you prepared to make a scene in a public place because of this? So on and so on.
Act accordingly.
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You did the right thing for addressing the issue. As being and old school soldier, once she rolled her eyes I would have have told her something's in her ear. Explained to her and moved on.
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GySgt Bryan A. McGown "Gunny"
With all due respect, I don't agree that "whispering something in a subordinate's ear" is an appropriate response to blatant disrespect, probably not under any circumstances in today's Armed Forces.
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On the spot corrections! I believe that whenever we wear the Uniform we must conuct ourselves accordingly and our bearing should be maintained at all times. This person should have been informed of her AR violation and then asked who her commanding officer was. If she persisted in her bad attitude then I would have taken a pic of her, put it on Stolen Valor and eventually someone would have identified her. Once identified, then she could be handled for acting like a turd, instead of a soldier.
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I have spent the better part of my morning reading the comments and opinions to this issue. I feel this soldier has a problem with self respect and therefore little respect for military tradition and authority. As retired trauma nurse, I've seen my share of "attitude", and I have to wonder about this person's circumstance prior to military life. When I became a Marine during the Viet Nam era, you enlisted or you were drafted. Today it is voluntary, however, some are service members due to judicial ultimatums. I once, and in some cases still do, believe this can change someone who is misguided or influenced by untoward circumstances, but not in all cases. For a few, this only compounds that person's attitude and the military becomes the cause of their frustration and anger. It therefore becomes the problem and challenge of those responsible for guidance and leadership to try and instill not only respect for tradition but respect for self as well. Perhaps this doesn't answer SSG (Verify To See)'s question, but this soldier might benefit from some psychological counseling. Who knows, she could become a model soldier!! Semper Fi
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the sad part is, the army is getting more and more like this every day. her chain of command is probably to soft or don't push the standards like they should. her being a SPC she should know already what the consequences of her doing this is. witch probably means her chain will do little to nothing about this if reported.... This thought sickens me and soldiers like this anger me greatly... I were my uniform with pride when out in public, because I represent something greater than myself... and soldiers like this makes all of us look bad...
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Regardless of rank if you see someone out of regulation you should correct the infraction, that includes those individuals that outrank you (showing the respect their rank requires of course). In the event I encountered that kind of disrespect I would then introduce myself as an NCO and proceeded to get the individual full name and unit information and follow up with the individuals supervision.
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Regardless of rank if you see fellow service members out right ignoring regulation it is your responsibility to correct the infraction. I would have introduced myself as an NCO if I was met with such disrespect followed by asking the individual for their full name and unit and follow up with their supervision.
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You should have gotten where she works so you could notify her command followed up with the photo
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I'M going to go out on a limb here so please bear with me. Standards are clear and regs are meant to be obeyed all the time by all the people. Duty, loyalty, integrity, responsibility are all on the line all of the time. We should lean this when we take the oath. Some of the responses I read here are nothing short of bullying, have nothing to do with raising awareness, teaching discipline, or raising esprit de corps.
If you are a leader you are not god nor should you act like King Kong. You do not need to make the offender comply just teach them politely and compassionately.
Your goal is to get them to be willing members of the team. Nobody wants to be corrected and dressed down in public or embarrassed by some loud mouth pretender to the throne.
That person may well shape up and want to reenlist because you were kind and she knew that she was wrong.
If you are a leader you are not god nor should you act like King Kong. You do not need to make the offender comply just teach them politely and compassionately.
Your goal is to get them to be willing members of the team. Nobody wants to be corrected and dressed down in public or embarrassed by some loud mouth pretender to the throne.
That person may well shape up and want to reenlist because you were kind and she knew that she was wrong.
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Former medic, out on medical discharge. But had hoped to re-enlist as Chaplain Asst.
It used to be we knew what we were fighting for, or at least the ideology. Many if not most today "volunteer" for the benefits. Which is not "bad", unless they refuse to let go of self when needed. Yet the reality is that 2 Timothy 3:3-5 is a reality can affect all, and does affect all, yet not all understand. An increasing "love" of self, has no real heart of cohesiveness, except for how self is profited. We've seen a decrease of hostility toward the uniform as lessons were learned since Nam. I'm not that old, but I too, remember when the Uniform was only to be worn, in full, by active duty or on special events. Time and place, I think there is a better understanding by civilians. But as it is tough to discipline our own children in public, getting too "hard" may not the best PR either. Get unit, etc., if possible pics, then let the Chain of command deal with the problem. Some folk are more amenable and a simple reminder will suffice. But this gal obviously is not one.
It used to be we knew what we were fighting for, or at least the ideology. Many if not most today "volunteer" for the benefits. Which is not "bad", unless they refuse to let go of self when needed. Yet the reality is that 2 Timothy 3:3-5 is a reality can affect all, and does affect all, yet not all understand. An increasing "love" of self, has no real heart of cohesiveness, except for how self is profited. We've seen a decrease of hostility toward the uniform as lessons were learned since Nam. I'm not that old, but I too, remember when the Uniform was only to be worn, in full, by active duty or on special events. Time and place, I think there is a better understanding by civilians. But as it is tough to discipline our own children in public, getting too "hard" may not the best PR either. Get unit, etc., if possible pics, then let the Chain of command deal with the problem. Some folk are more amenable and a simple reminder will suffice. But this gal obviously is not one.
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I may have a lower rank than anyone around but my personal and professional opinion is that if you are in uniform you must be in regulation. No matter where you are or when it is, you are in uniform. Have the decency to be in regulation. Also her having an attitude after just admiring she knew she was out of regulation? That just sounds like a lack of respect in her superiors and the uniform she is wearing.
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All I can say is WOW. For the young SPC out of reg shame on yourself. You know better and should have enough pride in your uniform and branch of service not to disrespect it. To the NCO...... I can't believe you didn't have enough back bone to correct the violation on the spot. That is what is wrong with our new generation military men and women. You can't and won't hold eachother accountable for your/their actions. Reach down.... Grab ahold.... Let me hang.... And develope some intestinal fortitude.
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I would have stood there as she put her hair up and removed the cap. I for one don't like being out in uniform but on an off chance that in still in it and need to pick up something or meet with someone AR 670-1 applies because I'm in uniform duty or no duty. I would have asked her to kindly get unfucked and rethink her chose of attire outside of normal duty.
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