Posted on Jan 14, 2015
On the spot corrections in public; when is it appropriate?
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This weekend me and my GF decided to get out and go to the movies not near any military base once so ever (maybe a Reserve or NG training facility could be near by). So I'm glancing around notice a uniform on a young lady and her hair down with a PT cap on inside of the mall. I didn't loose my mind at first because it could be anyone just wearing the uniform these days. As I get closer to her I notice she has on SPC rank. I told my GF that I have to say something to her and of course she didn't understand. When I approached the SPC and her civilian male acquaintance, I asked her was she in the Army and she quickly replied "yes". So I asked her did she know she was in complete violation of Army Regs she says "yes". The female rolled her eyes at me and I could tell she was going to have
a attitude with me so I quickly removed myself from the situation. So at what point do we as leaders make a on the spot correction in public or remove ourselves from the situation? I felt at the time as a NCO I should have done more to make her fix herself, but on the other hand I didn't want to make a scene at the mall and in public. SPC Ware I definitely will remember you forever.
a attitude with me so I quickly removed myself from the situation. So at what point do we as leaders make a on the spot correction in public or remove ourselves from the situation? I felt at the time as a NCO I should have done more to make her fix herself, but on the other hand I didn't want to make a scene at the mall and in public. SPC Ware I definitely will remember you forever.
Regulation
Mentorship
Leadership
Professionalism
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 709
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On the spot corrections in public, when is it appropriate? Always.
(I was only a SPC, out now 3 years, but the asnwer is still the same:always!)
As a PFC, I once told a LTC her name tape was on upside down, she thanked me.
(I was only a SPC, out now 3 years, but the asnwer is still the same:always!)
As a PFC, I once told a LTC her name tape was on upside down, she thanked me.
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Of course pull her to the side and ask why is she wearing the uniform like that. She might be stolen valor??? Laugh out Loud
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I agree with several posts on here. I usually start with the question of "Are you in the service? Really, what unit?" That gets the uncomfortable part of finding out who to report to (if needed) out of the way before any confrontation starts. After that, I identify myself as another service member and make the on the spot correction. I was an NCO for quite a while, then got a commission. I've done the same thing either way.
I also use the tactic that they represent the military to all of the civilians in the area and that usually helps them understand why they need to make corrections. I avoid the "ugly" confrontation in public. If they have been honest about their unit, and they usually are, I can let their chain of command deal with that if necessary.
On the flip side, I have also stopped service members that are clearly acting appropriately and doing things that reflect positively on the military to give a little positive feedback as well.
I also use the tactic that they represent the military to all of the civilians in the area and that usually helps them understand why they need to make corrections. I avoid the "ugly" confrontation in public. If they have been honest about their unit, and they usually are, I can let their chain of command deal with that if necessary.
On the flip side, I have also stopped service members that are clearly acting appropriately and doing things that reflect positively on the military to give a little positive feedback as well.
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Just a reminder: "No one is more professional than I, I am a Noncommissioned Officer a leader of soldiers"
You lead troops in combat, you goddamn do what is right, where ever it may be happening. Take them aside, identify yourself, have her identify herself, take names and tell her you are going to follow up to their chain of command, and square her away.
You lead troops in combat, you goddamn do what is right, where ever it may be happening. Take them aside, identify yourself, have her identify herself, take names and tell her you are going to follow up to their chain of command, and square her away.
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As soon as you see it is when its appropriate. Don't let SMs lose their bearing, someone has to square them away
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I would ask them to have a word in private and take them aside out of earshot of anyone else. I did this on four different occasions without a problem. I admit though that being a Special Forces officer probably had something to do with their immediate compliance.
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I've always hated this. Doing it with professionalism and dignity any tme would be right. But to make (regardless of rank) your fellow service member feel like shit in front of everyone is just a d*ck move. It accomplishes nothing but have every notice your own faults of lack of being a respectful human.
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SSG, you should not have removed yourself. She acknowledged that she was in violation of AR 670-1. She then violated Article 89 (been retired since 2006, not sure if that is the correct number) Disrespect to senior enlisted or Officer. In this case Enlisted. I would get her name and unit. If she failed to provide that information, make note of her unit patch (if wearing one) and her name on uniform.
I had a situation similar to this, but not at a movie theater.
I had a situation similar to this, but not at a movie theater.
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Crazy! I would've told her she needed to fix her self. Tactfully that is... I would have noted her name and unit...
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1. Use of tact is always a good idea.
2. Treat people with dignity and respect, despite their cognitive shortfalls.
3. Correcting shortfalls and deficiencies is an implied task for all leaders.
4. Refer to #1.
2. Treat people with dignity and respect, despite their cognitive shortfalls.
3. Correcting shortfalls and deficiencies is an implied task for all leaders.
4. Refer to #1.
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SSG Robinson, this is not a new problem. Unfortunately, it is an embarrassing issue when happening in a public venue such as this. The photo is shocking - also unfortunately. The bottom line is that you are obligated to make an on-the-spot correction. The recommended approach, of course, is to ask the soldier to step to the side and talk one-on-one so as to not unnecessarily embarrass her, yourself, or your Army. A recommendation would be to get her name and unit. At that point, you can address the issue at a later time by "looking the solider up" using today's technology. The cool thing about having a rank and a name on the green Army cold weather outerwear is that it provides a basic starting point for searches. Keep in mind that it is absolutely immaterial as to whether the Soldier is a Specialist, a Master Sergeant, a Major, or male or female, etc. The person is a Solder and deserves your attention.
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MSgt (Join to see)
I'll give you embarrassing: my step-son, partially seen in my avatar, had just completed AIT and we were heading to the PX for lunch when a retiree stopped his truck in the parking lot right next to him, jumped out and "adjusted" my stepson's no-so sharp-looking uniform. The man looked at me, winked and drove off. I should've corrected my step-son. I could've saved us both the embarrassment. That was my failure.
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I would think that uniform regulations should be corrected especially when off base, unfortunately the days of old school correction are gone. It seems some of today's military personnel have such a low standard for themselves. They know there is only so much that will happen to them and are willing to disrespect themselves and the uniform. Corrections should always be attempted in my opinion by a higher ranking member
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GySgt Joe Johnston
THERE WAS A TIME WHEN U LEFT THE BASE U HAD TO WEAR CIVILIAN CLOTHING
AT CERTAIN BASES THAT IS.OR THE CIVILIANS WOULD KILL YOUR ASS...OF COURSE
THIS WAS IN A FOREIGN COUNTRY.IF U WERE IN THE SERVICE U WILL KNOW WHICH COUNTRY I'M TALKING ABOUT.1948,49.50,51....
AT CERTAIN BASES THAT IS.OR THE CIVILIANS WOULD KILL YOUR ASS...OF COURSE
THIS WAS IN A FOREIGN COUNTRY.IF U WERE IN THE SERVICE U WILL KNOW WHICH COUNTRY I'M TALKING ABOUT.1948,49.50,51....
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That depends on how far you want to take it. Just remember that it is up to her chain of command to do anything about her behavior (any significant action to cause an impact to her career anyway).
Initial action should be saying something like "Thank you for your service." Then say something along the line "My so and so family member was serving in this branch of service..." Then ask the typical questions like what unit, what rank, and so on to know who she really is. By now, she shouldn't have any reason to provide any false information. Would you?
You can figure out the rest on what to do. You can ask her to show you her ID. But what if she isn't going to? Are you prepared to make a scene in a public place because of this? So on and so on.
Act accordingly.
Initial action should be saying something like "Thank you for your service." Then say something along the line "My so and so family member was serving in this branch of service..." Then ask the typical questions like what unit, what rank, and so on to know who she really is. By now, she shouldn't have any reason to provide any false information. Would you?
You can figure out the rest on what to do. You can ask her to show you her ID. But what if she isn't going to? Are you prepared to make a scene in a public place because of this? So on and so on.
Act accordingly.
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You did the right thing for addressing the issue. As being and old school soldier, once she rolled her eyes I would have have told her something's in her ear. Explained to her and moved on.
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GySgt Bryan A. McGown "Gunny"
With all due respect, I don't agree that "whispering something in a subordinate's ear" is an appropriate response to blatant disrespect, probably not under any circumstances in today's Armed Forces.
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On the spot corrections! I believe that whenever we wear the Uniform we must conuct ourselves accordingly and our bearing should be maintained at all times. This person should have been informed of her AR violation and then asked who her commanding officer was. If she persisted in her bad attitude then I would have taken a pic of her, put it on Stolen Valor and eventually someone would have identified her. Once identified, then she could be handled for acting like a turd, instead of a soldier.
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I have spent the better part of my morning reading the comments and opinions to this issue. I feel this soldier has a problem with self respect and therefore little respect for military tradition and authority. As retired trauma nurse, I've seen my share of "attitude", and I have to wonder about this person's circumstance prior to military life. When I became a Marine during the Viet Nam era, you enlisted or you were drafted. Today it is voluntary, however, some are service members due to judicial ultimatums. I once, and in some cases still do, believe this can change someone who is misguided or influenced by untoward circumstances, but not in all cases. For a few, this only compounds that person's attitude and the military becomes the cause of their frustration and anger. It therefore becomes the problem and challenge of those responsible for guidance and leadership to try and instill not only respect for tradition but respect for self as well. Perhaps this doesn't answer SSG (Verify To See)'s question, but this soldier might benefit from some psychological counseling. Who knows, she could become a model soldier!! Semper Fi
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the sad part is, the army is getting more and more like this every day. her chain of command is probably to soft or don't push the standards like they should. her being a SPC she should know already what the consequences of her doing this is. witch probably means her chain will do little to nothing about this if reported.... This thought sickens me and soldiers like this anger me greatly... I were my uniform with pride when out in public, because I represent something greater than myself... and soldiers like this makes all of us look bad...
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