Posted on Jan 14, 2015
On the spot corrections in public; when is it appropriate?
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This weekend me and my GF decided to get out and go to the movies not near any military base once so ever (maybe a Reserve or NG training facility could be near by). So I'm glancing around notice a uniform on a young lady and her hair down with a PT cap on inside of the mall. I didn't loose my mind at first because it could be anyone just wearing the uniform these days. As I get closer to her I notice she has on SPC rank. I told my GF that I have to say something to her and of course she didn't understand. When I approached the SPC and her civilian male acquaintance, I asked her was she in the Army and she quickly replied "yes". So I asked her did she know she was in complete violation of Army Regs she says "yes". The female rolled her eyes at me and I could tell she was going to have
a attitude with me so I quickly removed myself from the situation. So at what point do we as leaders make a on the spot correction in public or remove ourselves from the situation? I felt at the time as a NCO I should have done more to make her fix herself, but on the other hand I didn't want to make a scene at the mall and in public. SPC Ware I definitely will remember you forever.
a attitude with me so I quickly removed myself from the situation. So at what point do we as leaders make a on the spot correction in public or remove ourselves from the situation? I felt at the time as a NCO I should have done more to make her fix herself, but on the other hand I didn't want to make a scene at the mall and in public. SPC Ware I definitely will remember you forever.
Regulation
Mentorship
Leadership
Professionalism
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 709
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As a SNCO, it is part of our duties to point out uniform violations. Sometimes, it is an honest mistake - you are in a hurry and forget or don't notice that something didn't get put back in the right place after a trip to the cleaners. Once, I had to tell a General that he had strings hanging from his uniform. You have to point out the error in a respectful way - as the way you would want someone to do for you.
In this case, you knew she wasn't going to take the advise as a good thing - rolling your eyes at a senior ranking member of any service - I would have ask what unit she was assigned to and the name of her supervisor and commander. Then I would have reported it to the unit for action. However, if anyone is told that there is something wrong with my uniform, I would thank them for pointing it out and quickly correct it. That is Pride in Service - that just being there for the benifits.
In this case, you knew she wasn't going to take the advise as a good thing - rolling your eyes at a senior ranking member of any service - I would have ask what unit she was assigned to and the name of her supervisor and commander. Then I would have reported it to the unit for action. However, if anyone is told that there is something wrong with my uniform, I would thank them for pointing it out and quickly correct it. That is Pride in Service - that just being there for the benifits.
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In the context of your situation, i would attempt to talk to the person in private (ie using a soft voice so only the person could hear). If the person became belligerent, then he/she would turn it into something public.
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Example: One time when I was a young E4 I was walking through O'Hare on my way home for leave in civilian clothes. I saw a young Sailor in Dress Blues, rank E-2, sporting 3 or 4 ribbons. At the time the National Defense Service medal was being awarded for Desert Storm era service (same reason I was awarded my first NDSM). Knowing that Great Lakes Recruit Training Center was close by, I asked the Sailor how long he had been in. "I just graduated Boot Camp Sir..." was his answer. I then politely showed him my ID card and introduced myself as Petty Officer Miller and kindly explained to him that he should remove the unauthorized ribbons post haste and even suggested that he go into the men's restroom we happened to be standing next to.
He in turn replied "Yes Petty Officer" and fixed himself.
He in turn replied "Yes Petty Officer" and fixed himself.
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Introduce yourself and then pull her aside for the correction. If you still got the same response from her I would contact her CoC with the photo and her disrespectful attitude. If NCOs don't correct this behavior then one day this SPC will be a SSG and how do you think her standards will make the military a better place. If this was after 1900 (I think) then she should not have even been in ACUs. I hope you contacted her unit; just viewing that photo makes me want to take the photo and get in touch with her unit.
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You should have corrected her there making a scene and then there is being polite but at the same time upholding the standard
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IF you took the time to confront her, why not explain the importance of her being in the proper uniform in public?
I mean, you took the time and you backed down. That will make her more bold and she will continue her behavior.
I mean, you took the time and you backed down. That will make her more bold and she will continue her behavior.
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You have name, rank and location. From there it's a matter of a quick search for the local unit and the 1st Sgt. I would.
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SSG Robert Webster
Considering that this happened in Dallas, Texas, makes it difficult to contact a local unit. Was it a Reserve, National Guard, or Active Duty individual. As for Active Duty Army, the individual could have been assigned to a recruiting command office or AAFES Hq's to the southwest of Oak Cliff and to the east of Grand Prairie.
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You have name, rank and a location. All that's need more is a quick search for the local unit and a call to her 1st Sgt. I would.
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When I was on active duty we were taught that it is your responsibility to correct someone. And think about this, if another service member was watching you NOT make corrections YOU could be the one in trouble. When I was first commissioned I hated making public corrections until someone told me that.
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I have a case that I would like some clarification & opinions on. I just went to the local gas station and when I went to the register the cashier was in ACU's. The rank the individual was wearing was PFC however there were no visible unit patches. I was very much tempted to lay into the private as to why he would wear a military uniform while he was working a separate job, however I restrained myself as I'm not sure if it was a military service week for the company or not also since I have been retired from service for 6 years. Regardless, I was left rather irritated that a soldier is wearing ACU's while working a different job.
So my questions are:
1. Am I right to be irritated and should I have corrected the soldier on the spot?
2. Should on the spot corrections be addressed from former military to current enlisted soldiers?
So my questions are:
1. Am I right to be irritated and should I have corrected the soldier on the spot?
2. Should on the spot corrections be addressed from former military to current enlisted soldiers?
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1SG (Join to see)
Of course you have the right to be irritated, the uniform should be worn for official duty only, not for a second job or hanging out after hours. It is your general military authority to make an on the spot correction. We all know what right looks like, some folks just like to push the envelope.
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On the spot corrections in public, when is it appropriate? Always.
(I was only a SPC, out now 3 years, but the asnwer is still the same:always!)
As a PFC, I once told a LTC her name tape was on upside down, she thanked me.
(I was only a SPC, out now 3 years, but the asnwer is still the same:always!)
As a PFC, I once told a LTC her name tape was on upside down, she thanked me.
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Of course pull her to the side and ask why is she wearing the uniform like that. She might be stolen valor??? Laugh out Loud
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I agree with several posts on here. I usually start with the question of "Are you in the service? Really, what unit?" That gets the uncomfortable part of finding out who to report to (if needed) out of the way before any confrontation starts. After that, I identify myself as another service member and make the on the spot correction. I was an NCO for quite a while, then got a commission. I've done the same thing either way.
I also use the tactic that they represent the military to all of the civilians in the area and that usually helps them understand why they need to make corrections. I avoid the "ugly" confrontation in public. If they have been honest about their unit, and they usually are, I can let their chain of command deal with that if necessary.
On the flip side, I have also stopped service members that are clearly acting appropriately and doing things that reflect positively on the military to give a little positive feedback as well.
I also use the tactic that they represent the military to all of the civilians in the area and that usually helps them understand why they need to make corrections. I avoid the "ugly" confrontation in public. If they have been honest about their unit, and they usually are, I can let their chain of command deal with that if necessary.
On the flip side, I have also stopped service members that are clearly acting appropriately and doing things that reflect positively on the military to give a little positive feedback as well.
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Just a reminder: "No one is more professional than I, I am a Noncommissioned Officer a leader of soldiers"
You lead troops in combat, you goddamn do what is right, where ever it may be happening. Take them aside, identify yourself, have her identify herself, take names and tell her you are going to follow up to their chain of command, and square her away.
You lead troops in combat, you goddamn do what is right, where ever it may be happening. Take them aside, identify yourself, have her identify herself, take names and tell her you are going to follow up to their chain of command, and square her away.
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As soon as you see it is when its appropriate. Don't let SMs lose their bearing, someone has to square them away
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I would ask them to have a word in private and take them aside out of earshot of anyone else. I did this on four different occasions without a problem. I admit though that being a Special Forces officer probably had something to do with their immediate compliance.
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I've always hated this. Doing it with professionalism and dignity any tme would be right. But to make (regardless of rank) your fellow service member feel like shit in front of everyone is just a d*ck move. It accomplishes nothing but have every notice your own faults of lack of being a respectful human.
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SSG, you should not have removed yourself. She acknowledged that she was in violation of AR 670-1. She then violated Article 89 (been retired since 2006, not sure if that is the correct number) Disrespect to senior enlisted or Officer. In this case Enlisted. I would get her name and unit. If she failed to provide that information, make note of her unit patch (if wearing one) and her name on uniform.
I had a situation similar to this, but not at a movie theater.
I had a situation similar to this, but not at a movie theater.
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