Posted on Nov 6, 2013
SFC Electronic Warfare Nco
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Should a commander be able to say that they will only give a Bronze Star Medal to SSGs and above? Is this how awards are determined IAW AR 600-8-22? What if a SGT or below has met the criteria to earn a more prestigious award? Why does BDE or higher say that they are only alloted a certain number of awards for deployment or PCS or for an impact award? If your repsonse is "Tradition" or "That's the way it always has been," does that make it right?
Posted in these groups: Imgres DeploymentUs medals AwardsImages PCS
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SFC James Baber
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SSG N.,


We have numerous discussions on this topic over the past 4-5 months here on RP and the overall consensus from many E6/E7s were that is the issue you speak of, but we have had many CSMs and Officers state it doesn't exist, but we as NCOs have seen it to many times to ignore or go down that easy, it exists for rank discrimination no matter how many senior leaders claim it doesn't, because when you have repeated complaints and statement from NCOs from varying fields and units stating the same thing, it is not a few disgruntled SMs it is reality.


The only thing you can do is try and give your Soldier the best and most honest support you can and try and be straight forward with them to ensure they know it was not them, it is how some commands perceive the way they should be given out.

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SFC Michael Hasbun
SFC Michael Hasbun
10 y
I suppose if the system was rigged in my favor, I wouldn't see an issue either...
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CPL David Levy
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I have mixed emotions about this topic..

One one hand, my Grandfather was awarded the BSM for saving 68 lives back in WW2 while serving in the navy, his story was published and some of the people who were saved by him, remembered him and honored him at his funeral.

I served 6 years, 3 tours, and every tour I saw my senior leaders get a BSM and they did not do anything in my opinion that would compare to what my Grandfather did.

I certainly wanted to follow in my grandfathers footsteps and get one, to tell the story, but was given nothing more than a ARCOM medal x3 for my tours, and humbly accepted them and made no fuss.

On the other hand, I felt those who are getting those Bronze Star Medals, probably earned them, I guess, and its none of my business. But one has to question why a Platoon Sergeant gets a bronze star for delivering chow at lunch every day out to his mechanics on the flight line, never leaving the wire once in his 12 month deployment.

I guess in the end, the medals mean nothing more than the stories we tell about them, and heroes like my grandfather taught me the true lesson, to keep my mouth shut, worry about myself, and don't boast about my accomplishments, and one day, on my death bed, if I have lived my life Holy and True to the Lord, people will remember the good deeds and big heart, everything will take care of itself. My grandfather never spoke of his military experience, never once showed us his medals or his accomplishments, and when he passed away, the battle buddies and loved ones did the digging to show his valor, heroism, courage and selfless service. Everything did take care of itself.
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LTC Field Artillery Officer
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So, I would offer a couple of things to think about with this topic.

1.  Remember, we don't put ourselves in for our own awards, we are responsible for recognizing our subordinates for their achievements.  If you feel a SM deserve any level award / recognition, then put them in for the award.  If any member in your COC downgrades it, all you can do at that point is know you did what you could to to recognize that SM.  Focus on their write ups and achievements and why they deserve the award....in the end, it is out of your control.'

2.  IMHO, if you define your military service by what you wear on your chest, then there is your first problem.  I understand that it is human nature to want recognition, but we are not in military service for awards, we are in it to "support and defend the constitution" and for the brothers and sisters we serve with.  We all understand that military award system is broke, got it.  But if you can look yourself in the mirror at the end of your tour (ETS/Retirement) and hold your head high, then that is all the award / recognition you need.

3.  Why worry about what other people received?  Can you change it?  Did you submit them for something else?  Yes, officers tend to receive higher awards / recognitions.  Yes, there are deserving senior NCOs that deserve higher awards / recognition than the officers that they serve with.  But again, how can YOU change what they received?  Outside of a little jealousy / butt-hurtedness, how does their award effect your daily life?

4.  With respect to all the "outside the wire comments," the commanding general of the storied 101st ABN DIV made a great statement when he said "don't judge your importance by your proximity to the objective."  Just keep that in mind when you bash "FOBits" and officers for the awards they receive.
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LTC Field Artillery Officer
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SFC (R) Gates,

    First, thank you for your opinion and your service, it is that service that allows you the freedom to speak your mind.  Congratulations on your retirement.

    Based on your comments, I am guessing you have limited time in a TOC, if any.  When I was a battle captain managing the same fight that SGT TC was engaging in, my job was just as important as theirs, because without me and my SMs, they would not receive the support (recovery, fires, medical) that they need.  As a BN S3, I was responsible for ensuring the missions they were on were supported the overall mission at all levels and that their time outside the wire was not in reckless. My comments in now way belittle any of the SM outside the wire, as I have been there with them when I was a commander in combat.  It is unbecoming of any leader to make comments (Coffee, powerpoint / ulcers) about jobs they don't understand or are willing to do.  Remember, everyone in the military has a job to do, all of which are important and not all require SMs to go outside the wire.  Without these SMs ISW supporting the SMs OSW, then the OSW SMs wouldn't have a job either.  A true leader and profession would know, and better yet, understand that.

      In fact, there is NO quota on awards.  Different units may have wrongly placed rank / position requirements on awards, but that does not equate to a quota. 

      And finally, I do feel special, thank you.  I feel special that as a battery commander, I brought all my Soldiers home alive.  I feel special that as a Battalion S3, I provided the Battalion Commander with the necessary missions and planning for him to bring the entire battalion home alive.  I would be happy for my subordinates / leadership to read my previous comments, because had you really read them correctly, you would have seen that the point is that awards don't define who / what we are.  We cannot change or effect how our higher ups determine who gets what award, all we can do is continue to submit our SMs for the recognition they deserve and go from there.  If you were to ask my SMs, you would see that several of them received the BSMs they rightfully deserved, while others received the ARCOMs they deserved too.

   Again, congratulations on your retirement.
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LTC Field Artillery Officer
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Oh....and I didn't post my opinion to see how many votes up or down I could get, that is not the point of RP.  But thanks for point out that you didn't, because it seems that is important to you.
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1SG Michael Blount
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That's been going on for a while - unjustly so, IMHO.  From what I can tell, the Bronze Star has now been downgraded to BS.
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MSG Gene Potocki
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I've read several of the responses here. It's a sad fact it is a game of sorts based on rank.
I.E. Grenada (82nd Airborne) Every E-6 and above received a BSM, E-5's a ARCOM, and E-4 and below an AAM. (there were some Vietnam vet's pissed that they didn't get a star for their CIB for this deployment) we had one NCO who had deployed to Haiti '65, Vietnam '68, and Grenada '83 all with the 82nd.

Panama the same thing happened in the 82nd, Same award breakdown based on rank. This time I was in the 75th Ranger Regiment we didn't receive any awards except for our CIB's (1st award again for some of us Granada Raiders, 2nd combat deployment, based on time era in the reg's) and combat device for our jump wings. The Regiment's  philosophy was you were just doing your job.  
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SGT(P) Section Sergeant
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The 101st is using the same break down for awards.
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SFC Communications Chief (S6)
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I had a similar discussion with a First Sergeant recently, regarding a Specialist I knew, who had been "traded" for lack of a better word, to another battalion. The issue was regarding PCS awards, the fact that his PCS award should have encompassed his entire time with the Brigade, and his new unit had him do his own write-up but told him based on his rank alone that he could only write it up for an AAM.  Having had this Soldier under my tutelage for some time before he moved over, I reviewed his rough draft.  Based on the strength of the achievements, I encouraged him to put it as an ARCOM. His current leadership wouldn't even entertain the idea. I spoke to my S-1 about it, and the BDE had asked for "pre" award numbers, long before the write-ups, and weren't allowed to deviate from these predictions. Later, I spoke with my OPS SGM (former 1SG of ours), he laid out PCS award levels as follows: Actions directly contributed to success of Company mission: AAM, Actions directly contributed to success of Battalion mission: ARCOM, Actions directly contributed to success of Brigade mission: MSM.  Seemed like a fair system to me, upon hearing the situation he also disagreed with the actions of the Soldier in question's current leadership. 
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SSG Robert Blum
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I have deployed numerous times, and have served as a
Gunner, Driver, Team Leader, and Squad Leader during those deployments. As a
private and a Specialist I would have agreed with you, but only because of my
own ignorance. Think about it, as a Soldier your day starts (depending on MOS
& mission) with WARNO, and ends when you return to the FOB and complete
recovery.



Team Leaders, Starts the WARNO, then PCC/PCIs, and ends
after a meeting with the Squad Leader, after recovery.



Squad Leaders, Receive a Mission, Issue the WARNO, Make
a tennitive plan, Start the
Necessary Movement, RECON the area, Complete the Plan, Issue the complete Order
(your mission brief), and during all of that they run around and supervise
his/her NCO's and Soldiers to ensure that what they need to do is happening. (
8 Troop Leading Procedures), and end there day with debrief and stroyboards.



Platoon Sergeants, Busy enough tracking his Squad
leaders, and he/she still has to deal with "Beans and Bullets"
ensuring that the Platoon has the right equipment, at the right time, for the
right mission. Mentors his LT, reviews Debriefs and storyboards, and deals with
the 1SG and CSM.



Platoon Leaders, On platoon missions (refer to the Squad
Leaders day) Squad Sized missions, the PL may go out with all of his/her
squads. Normally attends two or three meetings a day, and decides the best
course(s) of action for missions to properly meet the Commanders intent.



Now lets look at the Bronze Star- AR 600-8-22 ch3-15



The Bronze Star Medal was established by Executive Order
9419, 4 February 1944 (superseded by Executive Order 11046, 24 August 1962, as
amended by Executive Order 13286, 28 February 2003).



The Bronze Star Medal is awarded to any person who,
while serving in any capacity in or with the Army of the United States after 6
December 1941, distinguished himself or herself by heroic or meritorious
achievement or service, not involving participation in aerial flight, in
connection with military operations against an armed enemy; or while engaged in
military operations involving conflict with an opposing armed force in which
the United States is not a belligerent party. Title 10, United States Code,
section 1133, (10 USC 1133) limits award of the Bronze Star Medal to service
members receiving imminent danger pay. Awards may be made for acts of heroism,
performed under circumstances described above, which are of lesser degree than
required for the award of the Silver Star. The Bronze Star Medal may be awarded
for meritorious achievement or meritorious service according to the following:



(1) Awards may be made to recognize single acts of merit
or meritorious service. The lesser degree than that required for the award of
the Legion of Merit must nevertheless have been meritorious and accomplished
with distinction.



Meritorious service/achievement- An act which is well
above the expected performance of duty. The act should be an exceptional
accomplishment with a definite beginning and ending date. The length of time is
not a primary consideration; however, speed of accomplishment of an important
task can be a factor in determining the value of an act. Meritorious Service
which is distinguished by a succession of outstanding acts of achievement over
a sustained period of time. Individual performance must exceed that expected by
virtue of grade and experience, based on accomplishments during an entire tour
of duty.



So My answer is Yes I think the Bronze Star should be
awarded to SSG and above for Meritorious service while deployed, providing that
Soldier served in a duty position commensurate to his/her pay grade. 

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SSG Flight Medic
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10 y
Thanks SSG for dropping some Knowledge Bombs. and extra points for bring out out the AR 600-8-22 in regards to the Bronze Star Medal. But it raises the question that if that is what the outline for the award is and Individuals aren't doing there job, it seems to me that the BSM is still being handed out for what is SUPPOSE to happen during the deployment rather then what Actually happens. it seems to me that when you hit boots on ground, the "deployment award" like the Arcom and BSM are determined before you even get out the gate for your first patrol. you described above what is suppose to happen, or what the Company commander expects to be happening at the COPs and OPs in the out lining area. But that doesn't mean it is actually happening and I think that is what the problem is. because when it is NOT happening the way you described above the medal is still being given out not necessarily earn. I believe it becomes a problem when you over here two SSG(squad leaders) talking about "well yeah soon as we deploy we can get these BSM and we'll be good to go" as if its a given. It's an award it shouldn't be a given. shouldn't it earned?


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SSG Robert Blum
SSG Robert Blum
10 y
I agree, and I thought I had said something along those lines but I must have thought it and not typed it. It does happen, but I have seen units where Lts who are less than steller get an ARCOM or COA, same for NCOs, and Ive seen Soldiers Get a COA. For example if a GOMAR was given to an officer, or the NCO or Soldier received an ART 15.  I wasnt trying to say that a MSG deploys and runs the GYM should get a BSM because he is a MSG. Duty postion and actual competent perfomance of those duties should be a defiante PREREQ.
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SSG Flight Medic
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10 y
thanks for clearing that up SSG Blum

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2LT Platoon Leader
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I saw this happen in both tours I've been on, and I still think it's utter BS for a 2LT who never left the wire getting a BSM for being a PL.  Not saying that the LT's job isn't hard, it is, it's a lot of long nights and early mornings, plus middle of the night wake ups because your soldier f'ed up, but we all busted our butts over there and to just hand out an award like that feels like a slap in the face.  I know I earned my ARCOMs and my AAMs and when it's all said and done that's all that matters to me.
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SSG Flight Medic
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Thanks SSG Caldwell for the input and Hooah i agree at the end of the day that is what matters, But I'm speaking on the impact it has on the young and up coming soldiers, in the sense of preserving the history and meaning behind the medal
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2LT Platoon Leader
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Per 600-8-22 3-13 c "Awards may be made for acts of heroism, performed under circumstances described above, which are of lesser degree than required for the award of the Silver Star"

This is an award for heroism not for sitting on the FOB, and even if they aren't for heroism as covered in section d "d . The Bronze Star Medal may be awarded for meritorious achievement or meritorious service according to the following:
(1) Awards may be made to recognize single acts of merit or
meritorious service. The lesser degree than that required for the award of the Legion of Merit must nevertheless meritorious and accomplished with distinction"  I fail to see sitting on a FOB as meritorious.  I don't feel like they met the requirements but then I also didn't put them in for the award. 
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SSG Robert Blum
SSG Robert Blum
10 y
Already quoted 600-8-22, if the duty postion is demanding such as a PLs is, and meritorious acheivment requires leaving a FOB, then riddle me this the MSM (Meritorious Service Medal) is an award that can Only be awarded in a non-combat area. How can that be?
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SGT(P) Section Leader
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10 y
Riddle me this, what is "heroic or meritorious" about sitting on a FOB? How does that go above and beyond their job description? 

Playing with the word meritorious doesn't change the fact that Bronze Stars shouldn't be given out without being earned within the criteria stated in 600-8-22. MSM's are garrison awards, and essentially irrelevant in this discussion. 

Also, a PL's job isn't demanding at any more than anyone else's. Sure, he stays up and plans the mission in accordance with the guidance from higher, but he's not up till ungodly hours making sure it gets done. He doesn't get up hours before, and stay late hours after the mission is finished to ensure that everything is reset. Guess who does that, SOLDIERS. The PL is responsible for the outcome of the mission, and that's it. Literally everything else falls on NCO's and Soldiers. So how exactly is his job demanding?
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MAJ Multifunctional Logistician
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SPC Warden,



You bring up a great point. Just as reference, I have not received a BSM for
every one of my deployments and I have been fortunate enough to be in units
that judge awards from scope of responsibility and level of performance.



Do I believe the award has been over used? Yes. Do I believe that the BSM I
earned carries the same weight as the BSM my grandfather earned in WWII? Absolutely
not.



It’s a tough problem to tackle. I think you must start with scope of
responsibility and level of performance. That is how I balanced awards when I
was a commander. Unfortunately, I think a part of your comment derives from the
responsibility piece. We commonly link rank with level of responsibility. Not
saying that is correct, but as a rule the higher rank you achieve, the more
Soldiers you are responsible for thus easier to quantify that aspect of awards.



BLUF: The BSM has been over used and shouldn't be based on rank. Some units
are better than others when handling awards. This is a good debate.



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SSG Flight Medic
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10 y
Thank you for the response Sir, I didn't know that that responsibility was a factor in earning an award. There were two times I can remember in my 3.5 year career when I had to do the job of an E6 and didn't get any award for it. From my scope as a Jr. Enlisted soldier I see an Officer who didn't do a full tour still get a BSM while the rest of the platoon ,aside from the platoon sergeant get a Arcom which was based off of how many missions were to complete at the Start of our deployment, What precedence does that seat in a young soldiers mind? How do you preserve what the medal actually means and the respect it is suppose to carry?
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SGM Sergeant Major
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You have to realize awards are based off of responsibility. Was the SGM only in the unit for 8 weeks? How long was the SGM in the regiment. Only 8 weeks in one job isn't right but I bet that award covered other time somewhere else in the regiment.
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LTC Paul Labrador
LTC Paul Labrador
>1 y
Exactly 1SG. 
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WO1 Student
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I am aware of that, however he was not in the unit somewhere else. He had just PCS'd here, and was here only for that period of time.



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SGM Sergeant Major
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There has to be more to this story. I cannot see a SGM getting a MSM for less than two months. Is it possible he received the award for achievement?
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WO1 Student
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1SG I'm telling you the whole story. We didn't deploy, go to NTC, anything.... A few ranges and that's it.
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