Posted on Nov 6, 2013

PCS, Impact, Deployment, and other awards: Should they be determined by rank?

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Should a commander be able to say that they will only give a Bronze Star Medal to SSGs and above? Is this how awards are determined IAW AR 600-8-22? What if a SGT or below has met the criteria to earn a more prestigious award? Why does BDE or higher say that they are only alloted a certain number of awards for deployment or PCS or for an impact award? If your repsonse is "Tradition" or "That's the way it always has been," does that make it right?

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Posted >1 y ago

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SSG (Join to see)

Posted 10 y ago

I think that it depends on the unit that you are in. When I deployed to Iraq during OIF 3/4 I received 2 Bronze Stars as an E-5. (One with a V device). From what I remember at least 95% of the people that I deployed with received a Bronze Star due to the mission that we had as the first DA selected MiTT. Do I think all of these soldiers deserved a Bronze Star, probably not. But the point is that rank had nothing to do with awarding the medal.

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SFC (Join to see)

Posted 10 y ago

I have deployed twice, once to Iraq and once to Afghanistan. I saw this exact scenario play out both times, and it was under completely different leadership. I don't understand the justification that certain ranked individuals are eligible for a certain award, while others cannot earn them because they are too low ranking. I actually knew of a situation where Soldiers in my unit were recommended for Bronze Stars (mostly SSGs), but they got shot down because these individuals were not Platoon Sergeants or above, and the Brigade met its quota for that award. I was floored when I heard that, for two reasons. I always thought awards were supposed to be merit or achievement based, not based on rank. I also never expected to hear that there was a maximum quota for an award. This stuff just doesn't make sense to me and I think it goes against the Army Values 100%, as well as the NCO creed!

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SFC (Join to see)

Posted 10 y ago

This is just my two cents but I see nothing wrong with Senior Leaders getting ARCOM's instead of BSM/MSMs. The award system is faulted among many ranks, and when you can't beat them you try to join them. It's nice to be awarded a little something more then others if you did accomplish more then the others. I remember as a SGT in D 1-503 IN Senior Line Medic role in Ramadi, going to the S1 to drop off end of tour awards and the S1 CPT looking at ARCOM write ups, in which one was mine. He stated "whats up, Sgt Jolly not getting a BSM; I just got mine turned in"

The facts were I had hauled in over 40 injuried US personnel from point of injury, often in fire fights, and led a team of trigger puller through the rough environment of Mid city Ramadi. The S1 CPT only left the FOB when taking personal actions for review at a larger camp via air.

I took this back to my 1SG, and simply he stated I was doing my job as a medic. That running around under fire, treating guys, and evac them back was what I was there for. He said the S1 CPT probably shouldnt get one either, but it was never for him to decide.

Enlisted members often will get so wrapped up in rank and awards we loose sight of the target, and certain units require a paradigm shift in thought.

I'm working under the guidance of a COL now that will PCS to War College soon, he has been here for almost a year. If I'm doing the award write up it will be for an ARCOM, his job as Chief has been paid by money and benefits for him and his family.

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SSG Jason Hoadley

Posted 10 y ago

I happen to have a BSM,

I earned in during my first tour in Iraq.

I was a CPL/E-4..

It was a great honor to recieve it!

But when a short stay(90 days or less) TOC lacky was give one, it felt that the award didn't hold the same value anymore.

The TOC lacky's BSM was reviewed by a few concerned Field Grade officers..
In the end the award was given in accordance with AR 600-8-22, because there was a single mortar attack of that camp

I do personally feel that the BSM is slightly over issued.

But if it is within the standards set forth by the AR, then so be it..

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LTC (Join to see)

10 y

SSG Hoadley,

Question, have you ever worked in a TOC? Do you know exactly what that "TOC Lacky" did or didn't do or is your opinion based on perceptions. Not every job requires SMs to go outside the wire or fire their weapons in anger (I would even argue that in the more recent deployments, most SM never fire a round at all, minus test fires). Having not been in that specific TOC, I cannot speak what that "lacky" did, but having worked and ran my own TOC in multiple deployments, I would offer that thost "lackys" are the guys who track the battle, coordinate air support, coordinate medical support, coordinate recovery support, just a name a few things. Having just recently left Afghanistan under the 101st, the CG made a great statement one brief when he said "don't judge your importance by your proximity to the objective."

In stead of worrying about what the BSM for the other SM means, why not just be proud of the one you earned, being that your COC recommended you for your performance.

Just my thoughts!

MAJ O

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SSG Jason Hoadley

10 y

Maj Oberg,

Yes Sir, I have worked in several TOC's being a runner as an E-4, and shift NCO as an E-6, some duties are quite important!

Please forgive my crude term..

The person in question was a S-4 trainee..

He was overheard several times saying that all he was doing was checking the box for a BN staff job..

The Regulation that's been quoted from is pretty clear as to the requirements for awarding the BSM.

As I have aged a little, my overall view I has been widened..

And yes there is a feeling of pride knowing that General Peter Chiarelli was the approving Officer of my award..

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CSM Michael Poll

10 y

One of my Battalion Battle Captains, An actual (CPT) we awarded with the BSM. Understand this, while she was the battle captain, while not directly in the TIC, was the essential person coordinating and maneuvering assets to assist units in the TIC. Without her at the helm, there would definatly have been catistrophic consequences for those on the road. She coordinated QRF, airstrikes, MEDEVAC etc from her TOC. Now agreed, some do not do the things she did to get thier medal, however, without knowing the 2nd and 3rd term affects that person may have been involved in, you may change your mind about TOC officers and thier role on the battlefield.

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SFC Don J.

Posted 10 y ago

I was an E-5 Squad leader at the end of Desert Storm and my platoon leader told me

E-6's and above were being put in for a BS. She said she put me in for one because I was a squad leader. I convinced her to give it to my Cpl team leader instead. I had more pride seeing it on his chest than I would have had wearing it on mine.

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SFC (Join to see)

Posted 10 y ago

There are some really great comments on here. I really like the ones about stop making awards mandatory for PCS, ETS, and deployment. Love it!

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MSG Monique Martin

9 y

They are not mandatory. Once again, it depends on the unit and
the command.

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SSG (Join to see)

Posted 10 y ago

Not at all. In our detachment we don't award by rank, but by merit. We have E-5s and E-6s in my unit getting ARCOMs for the deployment while everyone on my team, to include a Corporal, ais getting BSMs. Who cares about your rank? I'm much more concerned with what you accomplished.

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SFC (Join to see)

Posted 10 y ago

No, I seen it done on my most recent deployment

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SFC (Join to see)

Posted >1 y ago

This is like talking about religion and politics. No it should not be based on Rank per AR. Everyone up top doesnt see it that way though. The awards system is broke!

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SGT Nathan Huff

Posted >1 y ago

Welcome to the Army.

My grandfather who served in WW2 was at at a few battles and Earned himself a Bronze he was just a PFC.

I know what you are saying. Rank and how they give out awards is an insult to those actually doing the work and is in harms way.

I was in a unit for 4 1/2 years and I could give you a list of things I did for that unit. to include going forwards and fixing a mail room that had failed inspections for over a year, then to return and fix our units mail room that was also a failure. while training an entirely new team to run the place. I could go on and on about everything I did. I walked away with a AAM as mt ETS PCS, after it had been downgraded because of my rank.

I did the job of two ranks higher then mine and at time I did the position of a warrant as the PAS chief of HQ.

Awards should be given off of what you actually did, not by the rank on your chest.

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PCS, Impact, Deployment, and other awards: Should they be determined by rank?

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