"Quit calling us POGs"

This is a fascinating discussion, and I have a fluffy answer.

The people who have been in combat situations (ie in firefights, maneuvering to contact, actually attempting to move forward and kill the enemy), have a unique perspective on the world. I cannot explain this perspective, it is above words. These people (usually men due to social norms) have been chosen to follow orders and thereby been forced to do and see things that the majority of people will never have to experience. This includes their fellow SM who has made different choices who will face different orders. These people (the shooters) have an close bond that leads to a severe distrust of the outside world. I would argue that this distrust is borne out of the fact that they have trusted others with their lives and been rewarded in that trust. This will lead to forming a very small and robust circle of trust that will label all outsiders in order to categorize them so that they are easily identifiable.

Do I downplay the role of support people? No, I needed trucks that ran, guns that fired, bullets to shoot, and medical supplies to take care of my platoon. Will I ever trust them like my brother infantrymen? No. Will I label them POG's in my mind for easy identification of those I can likely trust quicker than those I have walked outside the wire with? Probably. Is it a good system? Sometimes but I have served with some piss poor shooters and some seriously awesome POGs.

I do not discount your ability to do your job well in whatever job you have chosen.

I will not trust you as much as Andrew, Bob or Durkin.

Thanks y'all for your patience. You're mostly ok in my book.

As an aside, compared to the soldiers of WWI, WWII, we're all POGs.

Everything has its limits. As long as everyone knows that limit we should be fine.

I firmly believe that, "Without us POGs, the Infantry would not exist. Just the same as, every MOS other than Grunt, is designed to support the Grunt. It's a love/hate relationship. I remember a Grunt calling me a POG right before some cold-load training on my Blackhawk. I said "Yep! And if I wasn't, your dumba$$ would be walking to the PZ." His buddies laughed, I laughed, we moved on and accomplished the $#it out of our mission. PFL, Baby!! (POG for Life)

If your a POG, then your a POG. If your anything else, you shouldn't be called a POG. I give respect to the Infantry because they are the backbone of the Marines and Army but they have a mentality that if your not Infantry, you are considered a POG. As a Combat Engineer, line company, in some cases, we are actually the first to arrive on scene to clear shit out for everyone else to pass. We are considered grunts, just with a different title so we are far from being a POG.

Look I'm a air wing Marine or POG if u prefer. The real question is WHO CARES? I see it as good competition between two different aspects of military life. Is the competition between 49er and cowboys fans separating them. No its just to groups of people who love their aspect of life. Quit being sensitive. Let's not turn sibling rivalry a serious problem

When I was on submarines, I started as a NUB (Non-Useful Body) because I wasn't qualified to do anything yet. I had to gain knowledge in my job as well as other ship's systems and the basic functions of my shipmates' jobs. Once I was qualified, I had earned respect, and respect is what this is about.

I don't so much care about the term "POG," because it's just a word, but it's the attitude and lack of respect normally accompanying the term when someone is labeled as one by one of their fellow servicemen... Regardless of branch or specialty, we're all on the same team and ultimately have the same mission: to support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic.

To disrespect a fellow serviceman because they're not as "gung-ho" or "hooah" as you is simply childish and brings nothing but dishonor.

I do not see this as being a problem at all. after it is just words

OMG!!! Get your panties out of a twist. POG stands for Personnel Other than Grunt. If the shoe fits, wear it. Get over it. Sure, we're Marines, everybody thinks they're better than everybody else, so on and so forth, but this term is coined lovingly. At the end of the day we all love each other because we're all Marines. I know for a fact as a Supply Marine I had it made in the shade with a glass of lemonade because not once did I have to pay for Cammies or Steel-toe boots. Sure, that made me a lot of friends because I had the "hook-up", but that's just the way it goes.
P-O-G till I D-I-E! That's why these grunts wanna F*** with me!! I'm so POOOOOOGGGG!!!!

*To clarify, I was not aware the term was used in other branches of service.

Another story from Desert Storm about POG's and the Infantry life....

I was in a UH60 Assault Battalion during Desert Storm. Our normal Blackhawk crew consisted of 2 pilots and a crew chief. There was no manning position for the door gunner. So, Division task each infantry brigade to supply 30 people (15 for each Blackhawk company that supported them) to become door gunners. Ok, if you are an Infantry Company Commander, who are you going to give-up for this tasking? You guessed it, we got the "bottom of the barrel" guys.

The first couple of days, it was quite humorous to watch them. They would sit in a group and wait for the NCO to issue specific instructions and then they would all "move-out." This is quite different that what we in Aviation was used to. I am not making fun of this, it is just not what Aviation POGs do.

There is a very important reason that the infantry operates this way. The Infantry guy doesn't move until being told to do so, and when he does move, it is to accomplish a specific task. He must attempt to accomplish that specific task. That is the way the Infantry operates. I have tremendous respect for the Infantry because most of those specific tasks involve great danger.

However, us Aviation POG's just don't "operate" that way. So, after watching this for 2 days, another senior Warrant Officer, myself, and the First Sergeant went over to the group and explained to them how we "operate" and what we expect of them. We explained that every morning, the First Sergeant has a formation and issues the tasks for the day. Then we expect you to "be at the right place, at the right time, with the right equipment, doing the right thing." Simple as that. Yes, they would still have the NCO's supervising them and directing them but for the most part, we expected them to be thinking for themselves.

Oh man, these guy flourished. Yes there was a couple who just "didn't get it", but the majority of them "saw the light." The door gunner for my helicopter was planning on getting out of the service when his term was up due to the Infantry life. He thought the whole Army was like that. However, he re-up'ed into a different MOS and went on to become a Senior NCO. The majority of them ended-up re-up'ing into a different MOS and a couple went back to the Infantry and became NCO's and worked their way up the ladder. But they got a bigger picture of how the Army, as a whole, operates.

But again, please don't get me wrong, there is a very important reason as to why the Infantry "operates" the way it does. Those warriors need to react to very specific orders, at a specific place, at a specific time or the mission fails (I'm sure an Infantry guy can explain this much better than I did).

Early in my career, I was a 12B Combat Engineer. In OSUT (how many remember what OSUT is?), our Drill Sergeants kept telling us that we were "an infantryman with a pick and shovel." So true.

A little humorous story. In Desert Storm, I was in the 101st in one of the UH60 Assault Battalions. For the combat missions, all of the seats in the rear were removed and a kevlar blanket was installed on the floor. The infantry would just jump in the back with all of their gear. I would try to take care of our infantry brethren as much as I could because I knew that they definitely had it harder than us but I also knew that they chose that path.

One mission, we were a flight of 4 Blackhawks enroute to a forward location with an infantry squad in the back when we had to land in the middle of the desert due to a sandstorm. We waited for a couple of hours for the storm to clear but to no avail. During that waiting period, the unit we were hauling put out a security team and the rest the infantry guys stayed in the back of the helicopters and there were various conversations. The conversation eventually made it POG's and the life of the Infantry. There was lots of good-humored jabs about how hard the infantry life is and how easy the aviation had it.

Well, we finally made the decision that we would have to spend the night in the middle of the desert. I got out of the front of the helicopter, walked around and opened the cargo door and told them to get out of the helicopter. They looked at me as if I was crazy but I told them, "When we made the decision to stay the night here, the back of this helicopter just became my tent. This is where my crew will bed-down for the night." I continued, "Sorry guys, this is the life of a POG."

They got the message. However, they soon got over it when in the morning, we dug out our little one-burner stove and an old kettle that I always carried on missions and boiled water for some hot coffee. Our crew had stockpiled all of miscellaneous packets from our left-over MRE's. We had quite a large stash of various items, including lots of coffee packets. We were able to provide them with some snacks and hot coffee.

We were once again back in the good graces of or infantry brethren.