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I find this to be humorous and also a legitimate issue. Recently I was at large training compound with multiple units there, basically a "mock up" of a FOB. So while in the latrine some soldiers, that must have been in one of the support units there were talking. They were complaining about the soldiers from the infantry unit calling them "POGs." And without missing a beat someone yells from a stall in the same building "Shut up POG." I couldn't help but to laugh.
I usually don't care what you do in the Army as long as you are doing your job and are maintaining your professionalism. These units that we were running into were far below the expectations of maintaining professionislism. There were so many uniform violations our CSM had to wear blinders where ever he walked so he could make it there without correcting every soldier on the way. If he did he would never make where ever he was going. I was just wearing ACUs. It was a bit chilly but I saw a soldier with the ECWCS gen III level 7 jacket, aka the marshmallow jacket. With some sort of toboggan cap that was not anything to do with the army. There was no uniformity and it seemed like no one in their unit cared.
I am not calling anyone a POG in this post. I have our support personnel in our unit that we view as peers. They were harder than anyone in that other unit. They act like soldiers just like we do.
What is your take on this? Do you think they are asking for it by they way they are? Should anyone be called a POG? Should they be expected to maintain the same standard as everyone else in the Army? And what is their CSM doing when this is happening?
I usually don't care what you do in the Army as long as you are doing your job and are maintaining your professionalism. These units that we were running into were far below the expectations of maintaining professionislism. There were so many uniform violations our CSM had to wear blinders where ever he walked so he could make it there without correcting every soldier on the way. If he did he would never make where ever he was going. I was just wearing ACUs. It was a bit chilly but I saw a soldier with the ECWCS gen III level 7 jacket, aka the marshmallow jacket. With some sort of toboggan cap that was not anything to do with the army. There was no uniformity and it seemed like no one in their unit cared.
I am not calling anyone a POG in this post. I have our support personnel in our unit that we view as peers. They were harder than anyone in that other unit. They act like soldiers just like we do.
What is your take on this? Do you think they are asking for it by they way they are? Should anyone be called a POG? Should they be expected to maintain the same standard as everyone else in the Army? And what is their CSM doing when this is happening?
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Combat Arms
Support
Combat Arms Support
Edited >1 y ago
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 147
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That's like a Tree asking to not be called a "Tree" because it is offended by the term "Tree"
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OMG lol... Is this for real?
Simple solution... If you're a POG, and you're offended, quit being a damn POG. If you're a POG, and you realize you're a POG, and you're NOT apart of this "PC, I feel good-You feel good" thing that's going on in the military right now that's absolutely destroying our ranks, then carry on.
Simple solution... If you're a POG, and you're offended, quit being a damn POG. If you're a POG, and you realize you're a POG, and you're NOT apart of this "PC, I feel good-You feel good" thing that's going on in the military right now that's absolutely destroying our ranks, then carry on.
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Samuel Nicholas broke Robert Mullan's balls for being a recruiter 239 years ago. The cave man who hunted mastodon no doubt talked shit on the caveman who sat in the cave sharpening sticks. This is the way of the world. If one does not want to be called a POG then by all means, be a grunt. This is not a difficult concept.
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How bout POM (people other than musicians) I can play the piano, trombone and trumpet, plus, I am still expert shot, or maybe POF (people other than finance)? Let a Soldiers pay get lost and see how much they love the fine folks in finance.
That all I got to say about that.
That all I got to say about that.
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CPT (Join to see)
LOL. I am a POM. I tried to play the Bass but I am tone death. I gave up quickly. I can do finance. I love numbers. I would be speechless if I was called that.
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Who cares? This is a traditional divide. Deal with it or get out. I don't mind being called a POG. At least I don't have to go out to the field for weeks at a time.
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SGT Criss M.
LT Salisbury, I looked at your profile......Maybe this isn't the place to bring this up, but I've been having trouble with a shooting pain that starts in my lower back, goes down my right arm and back up my arm, across my shoulders to my left arm, then back up, the. repeats on my legs. What do you think could be causing that? Oh, and I have these dizzy spells, too. (-:
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CPT (Join to see)
Has your heart been checked out? Maybe you are having a heart problem that comes with not drinking enough water. It could be alot of other things. Maybe it has something to do with your nervous system. I would need more information about it.
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SFC Walter Mack
Being a POG does have it's advantages. I haven't stunk up the house with field gear in years. I know my wife appreciates it.
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Those who insist on using the term make me sad. They cant see beyond that simplest of kool-aid. It doesnt make one better to be proud of not being a POG, it makes one bitter. No one likes a chip on the shoulder No one needs to kiss up to anyone, but good luck trying to win wars without POGs.
I mean, we get it already, move on.
I mean, we get it already, move on.
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By: Peter Sessum So there I was, in Afghanistan, no shit. I was in Khost Province on FOB Salerno and about to go on a mission. There was a part missing from my machine gun mount so I went into the ...
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CH (CPT) (Join to see)
"The problem is, most POGs don’t see it that way. They look down on 'dumb grunts' that don’t bring anything to the table." - From the article. That's a little ridiculous. An unsubstantiated claim.
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SGT Stephen George
I was a grunt ...and I used the determination and leadership skills I developed as a grunt while obtaining undergraduate, graduate and post graduate academic success in my post military life . Also, there's a reason you don't hear people telling POG Drone Pilot PTSD stories at the VFW ... .
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I've been on both sides of the fence on this. I spent a large portion of my career as an 11B and loved the job while I did it. I now, as an Electronic Warfare NCO fall into the definition of "POG". I do not have thin skin and am not offended by the word POG or having it directed at me. I take it to mean "person other than grunt" and technically this would be a correct statement since I am no longer an infantryman by job title. I agree with professionalism being an integral part of who we are and what we do, but have we as a Nation and a military become so sensitized to being politically correct that anything outside of being PC is considered unprofessional. They are not now nor will they ever have the same definition.
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PV2 Abbott Shaull
I think to point we may have. It one of the fall outs of being Politically Correct all of the time and having Zero Tolerance. I have said since both started taking root in the military they had no business being in the military. You have to be honest with people, and let them be who they are, and help them through their problems, not act like they don't exist, so to build a stronger team, and to make them stronger. Yet in PC Army there means to be honest, you can't cause stress upon your troops, and you can't yell at me or I will turn me or I will turn in. Shrug, if I screw up while I was in, and I got yelled at, well guess what, I deserve it, did I like, not one bit. Did I understand why, yeah, did I learn my lesson, yes. Did I make that mistake again, hell no.
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Also having been on both sides of the fence I have tried to have this conversation, it seems to be a constant game of one upsmanship that can escalate forever... I was Infantry but not Ranger Qualified or I was SF but not Delta blah blah blah. All jobs are there for a reason, what I didn't understand as an Infantryman is that most of us "Pog's" don't care, even though I did lose a friend when he went SF and couldn't stop belittling everyone who wasn't SF... Just live your life and do your best.
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SGM (Join to see)
Be happy with what you have Sir was my point, be proud of your Ranger tab, but dont be the Soldier wishing they were also SF, Sapper, etc.....it always amazes me when retirees introduce themselves they are always a "retired SF CSM"....some people retire as a SSG Mail Clerk....no need to regret your service.
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SGT Stephen George
SGM Brooks,
I will piggyback on your comments by suggesting, in my opinion, nobody is sleeping well because the thought of the cooks & clerks doing their jobs is easing their minds ... .
"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."
George Orwell
I will piggyback on your comments by suggesting, in my opinion, nobody is sleeping well because the thought of the cooks & clerks doing their jobs is easing their minds ... .
"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."
George Orwell
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SGT Stephen George
Be lucky you were only told to put your "big girl panties on ... ." My experience with male on male berating usually included the senior NCO leadership telling you to "RANGER THE F@CK UP ...or QUIT ... ." Of course, that was back in the good ole days when they could threaten to kill ya if you slept on guard duty ... .
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SFC Royce Williams
Exactly why I chose to stay Infantry and not reclass. I don't think I'm strong enough to handle being a soft skill. I would have probably been on the cover of Army times with so many others for offending someone's sensabities. Besides being the tip of the spear is much more fun than being in the rear with the gear. And as far as intelligence levels are concerned, as a Drill Sergeant I trained everyone from the lowest iq level to men with PHD's to be Infantry Soldiers. Very few of them joined the Infatty because that's the only thing they were smart enough to do. Most of them joined the Infantry because they wanted to kick ass.
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SGM (Join to see)
That's the best line George Orwell ever wrote.
And I really wasn't trying to harass SGT Jarrett. But if you are going to whine, people are going to assume you are a baby, and tell you to grow up. Obviously, sometimes this is told more forcefully, as mentioned by SGT George.
And I really wasn't trying to harass SGT Jarrett. But if you are going to whine, people are going to assume you are a baby, and tell you to grow up. Obviously, sometimes this is told more forcefully, as mentioned by SGT George.
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It doesn't make sense, didn't you pay your dues while in training? Why call people out in a deployed environment? If they are in training I have no problem with kicking sand in their faces, but deployed places are a whole different story...
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CPT (Join to see) 2008, Kandahar afghanistan. 2-2 MEU Advon came in to set up shop for the main force. We offered MOD rooms for the Advon. One of their sr NCOs said, "bud, were the marines, we came to kick ass and take names" I quote that! So they elected to stay in palomino tent city. The three day rain season came in. Saw this Sgm at the DFAC. He was busy with his major trying to get the thirty pounds of mud off his boots that was up to his knees. In Afghanistan, it's powdery and when it's wet, it's like cement. He asked if those mods were still available to my major, without skipping a beat, take a little guess what I told him???
Be tough all you want on this feed, grunts. But I've been with you guys in some instances. Thankfully not as long. And while I appreciate what you guys do, those days I was with you, you bitched and complained like the rest of the MOS's. I was fortunate to be considered one of you for that short time. That may be why I saw it.
That being said, there's a fine line between hard and stupid. That day in Afghanistan, well, that remark and declination of a better living arrangement was just plain stupid. I applaud the essence of grunts not complaining, but that's the biggest load of manure I've ever heard. Lol.
Be tough all you want on this feed, grunts. But I've been with you guys in some instances. Thankfully not as long. And while I appreciate what you guys do, those days I was with you, you bitched and complained like the rest of the MOS's. I was fortunate to be considered one of you for that short time. That may be why I saw it.
That being said, there's a fine line between hard and stupid. That day in Afghanistan, well, that remark and declination of a better living arrangement was just plain stupid. I applaud the essence of grunts not complaining, but that's the biggest load of manure I've ever heard. Lol.
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MSG (Join to see)
cant say i did. i went to almost every FOB, COP, AF in RC South and RC W. i was charged with delivering goods by means of air drop to personnel that were in bad locations. the marine CH53 pilots were the best. they would fly anywhere. got to even test fire the GOW/minigun. that thing was awesome. spin boldak sounds familiar, but i dont think i ever stayed there. i usually got sutck up in the mountains for days with the grunts because the army ring route didnt want to go back to pick me up. always "maintenance" issues. lol.
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PV2 Abbott Shaull
Being an Grunt all I can say is shit load of Karma hit him. Like I said the culture is something that too many people have drank the 'Cool-aid' for too damn long. It nice to rough it, but when you given the chance not to, take it. The offer may not be extended again so freely.
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As a former Scout (Desert Shield/Storm) and current Transportation Coordinator, I am proud to be a POG. So when the Infantry starts throwing around the word 'POG', I politely remind them that I may be a POG, but that freedom bird scheduled to fly them home could suddenly break down and be a couple days late.
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SSG (Join to see)
SGT George, done my time in the trenches. Let the young guys do all that hooah shit. Besides, everybody knows Infantry is the queen of battle..........but it's the Cavalry that keeps her from getting raped. And if Infantry were really all that, why do they always call for close air and indirect fire when they get in trouble................LOL
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I have seen one upset POG, this individual initiated the dreaded "Death" transaction in the old SIDPERS system against a Combat Arms soldier. Talk about screwing up a guy's records!!! Wow....
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CPT (Join to see)
I had a buddy stop getting paid. When he went to finance they said they had no record that he was even in the Army. He had to bring back a copy of his contract to get put back into the army. I wonder who he pissed off.
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PV2 Abbott Shaull
Yeah it happens, the lovely let screw with guy records. I think almost everyone has suffered that indiscretion once upon time during their career. Sometimes it not matter who pissed off, but who you might of pissed on without knowing it. It one big organization, lot of shit goes on in higher HQ, and as they say it all goes down hill. Some times the hill never makes it down to Joe in question, but stops somewhere above in the chain of command, in some far flung corner office that PFC Smoltz didn't know existed, from his Company area. Yet come the 1st he will not get paid, and he will have to go up to HQ and drag his Sergeant and figure out why? I think we all seen it happen at least once while we were in, in one form or another to someone. Can it happen in today Army, shrug, not sure would have to be lot more creative than one use to be, in the good old pen and paper day, or for that fact in the early transition over to computers.
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PO1 (Join to see)
Yeah....I saw the "no pay, not in the military" routine happen to a sailor I was TAD with. I looked at him and said - "sh!te! If you're not in the military then you don't have to shave, you don't have to wear uniforms anymore, you don't have to muster....you got it good!" So, this sailor changed into his civies and stopped being a sailor for a day. The COC tried to get into his face, but the personnel officer confirmed; per HQ he was not in the service and was not to get paid. Odd fact (at the time of the event - not sure if current); if you're no longer in the service and are forced to remain onboard a warship, the Nav was supposed to pay you some outlandish amount of money per day, plus per diem, etc. Messages were flying back and forth for almost 2 weeks until someone miraculously determined there had been an error had occurred and all was fixed. But the COC let him walk around in civvies for the entire time........
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PV2 Abbott Shaull
Wonder if he got the outlandish amount of money per day while he was supposedly 'out of the navy'...lol
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If I were in the marines, Id be considered a pog. besides the point, I am a support personnel. If i were a mechanic in the Marines I would probably say "look MF, if it werent for my MOS you wouldnt be functional. No vehicle, which means ur ass would be on foot." Therefore my MOS is just as important as yours.
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PV2 Abbott Shaull
Amen MSG Greg Kelly. A ride was always better than a walk. No matter who was driving. Regardless if you Airborne, Air Assault, Airmobile or Light Infantry you basically at the end of the day Light Infantry. So anytime we could get a ride it was good thing.
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SSG Maurice P.
CPL JIMENEZ Roflmao back in the day 1970's Marine Corps Motor T' along with Maintenance were the baddest marines in the corps fistwizs roflmao
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Terminal Lance - Terminal Lance #344 “Pogue”
There was a bit of commotion over a Marine Corps Times article regarding the age old debate of POG’s vs Grunts on Monday. The article presents the case that maybe POG’s shouldn’t be made fun of and called POG’s. Hilarity ensued online and across the Corps as people reacted in ways ranging from “who cares?” to “stop being a pussy.”
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PV2 Abbott Shaull
If it wasn't for Logistic, the Squirrelly Intel guys, Aviation, Medic, Engineers, and Artillery. There would be no Infantry left to win the battle.
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Being in the Army I have the upmost respect for our sister services. They all bring a piece of the pie for the big picture...
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I'm under the impression that it took 12 troops to keep one grunt in the field during Vietnam. Does any higher up know if that statement still holds true? Has it gone up or down?
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CPT (Join to see)
I am sure it has gone up. Throw in some EWO and UAVs. Just look at a BCT. There really are not many fighting soldiers in it.
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SFC Mark Merino
I hear that. 30 scout helicopters in the air requires a lot of love.....from us "POG'"s....lol
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PV2 Abbott Shaull
Well when you consider that in 1990s era Heavy Division was around I think 14,000 - 16,000 troops when you add and subtract all the various attachments and detachment one would have before it would got to the front. Of that I think in the end 6,000-8,000 were actually classified as combat troops such as Infantry, Armor, Cavalry Scout, Engineer, and Medic. Rest were Support with many of them in direct support of the combat units, but not classified as combat MOS. Yeah, Armor, Armor Cavalry, Aviation, Artillery (SP), ADA (SP), and Mechanized Infantry units had long support column following them with fuel, ammo, mechanics, materials, fuel for them, and it goes on and on. Last figures I seen it was like 200 personnel to support one M1A1 tank in the field all the way back to up several levels of the chain of command.
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SSG (Join to see)
http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2012/09/27/no_army_for_young_men
They cite a three to one ratio, I have heard the Air force is in the 70s and the WWII at 7 to one. I could see the ratio going down as we out source support operations.
They cite a three to one ratio, I have heard the Air force is in the 70s and the WWII at 7 to one. I could see the ratio going down as we out source support operations.
Soldiers these days need less muscle and more maturity, so why do we still focus on recruiting 18-year-olds?
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