Posted on Jun 12, 2014
CWO4 Nuclear Weapons Technical Inspector
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Posted in these groups: Rank Rank
Edited >1 y ago
This is a duplicate discussion. Click below to see more on this topic.
SPC Christopher Smith
We speak about keeping the best talent, and pushing them to be as successful as possible, but we limit these capable people by associating Rank with Responsibility.
Before joining the Army, and ever knowing S.H.A.R.P existed had taken Sexual Assault and Harassment Prevention courses for a job as an Student Resident Adviser at the age of 19 in college. That year I was the primary case personnel for a rape case, I helped the victim from the time they knocked on my door until they were done in the hospital, before I had to relinquish my duties to a higher source. At 23 I join the Army and because of my rank it is believed I would not know how to compose myself if a situation were to arise.
I believe we could engage personnel and better help our peers to our left and right by utilizing the talents of everyone that they bring with them from the private sector.

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Revision #1:

 

I do not think I properly presented this topic. I will attempt here to clarify. The argument I was attempting to make is that we have a shortage of talents in areas like EO/SHARP/Master Fitness Instructor/Master Resilency Trainer/ ect. These positions and classes currently have ranks associated with them although myself and others might argue that JSMs are able to feel these positions. Like my prior experience shown above, might qualify me for a SHARP rep, someone with a degree or ceritification as a fitness trainer might qualify elswhere. Our junior ranks vary widely in age ranges and prior experiences, and I see this as wasted potential. I hope this helps to clarify things.

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Revision #2:

 

After some conversing with SFC Richie, I thought this a different option: "would you be more inclined to support a system in which a junior service members (JSM) was not in one of these roles fully, but formally trained and could service as an Assistant with a limited amount of authority granted? That way those with prior experience could continue to develop those skills, and help with their prior knowledge the NCOIC of that program."

Responses: 20
PO2 Operations Specialist
I think for experience its a good showing. For respect and Command & Control it is off completely. Obviously any Officer is above Enlisted. However any O1-O3 that tries to go toe to toe with an E-8/E-9 favorbility will be with senior enlisted.... The structure is in place and works efficiently to ensure proper span of control.
MAJ Jim Woods
MAJ Jim Woods
>1 y
I agree with you unless the O has prior enlisted service. But we have talked about that before.
PO1 Ryan Riegel
Edited >1 y ago
I agree there is a distinct difference between officer and enlisted ranks. Both sides normally show each other the respect deserved. From my experience junior commissioned officers, i.e. O-1 thru O-3, fully understand that the senior NCO(s), i.e. E6 and above, are there to help train the junior officer and aid him or her in their career progression to become a more efficient and knowledgeable senior officer. I have on only rare occasions met a junior officer that did not render respect to the senior NCO(s). For the most part officers have great relationships with their senior NCO(s) and cherish the experience and knowledge that their senior NCO(s) bring with them.
Throughout my fifteen years of service it was observation that the senior NCO(s) had more direct experience within their rating or MOS than the officers appointed above them and the NCO(s) had a better understanding of leading the boots on the ground to accomplish the daily tasks; whereas the officers had the bigger picture of the overall long term objectives, rules and regulations than the NCO(s). When I transitioned over to a special warfare unit I discovered it was more about your competency to perform the job than your rank. I filled a normal E6 position; however, I also filled the position of an E7 and an O3 at times if the situation called for it. In today's complex and technologically advanced military more and more enlisted personnel are in possession of Bachelor’s Degrees and some even have Masters Degrees which does narrow the gap between the officer and enlisted ranks, but I feel it overall strengthens our military. There are specific differences between Officer and Enlisted that are specifically spelled out in the UCMJ and the Geneva Conventions. Those differences allow us whether Officer or Enlisted to work together to accomplish our mission as a Team.
I do not think there is any way to effectively compare Officer and Enlisted ranks. We all have our strengths and weaknesses. I feel it’s like comparing apples to oranges in reality. As I have transitioned to a civilian life I see the NCO role as a civilian is best suited for a supervisor or project manager role, whereas the Officer role is better suited to a Program Director or Management Director position. Both roles have key parts to play in a civilian company just like in the military. I see the connection between Program Managers and Management Directors to their Project Managers and Supervisors almost mirror the relationship between an Officer and an NCO. However, it is reasonable to say that after completing your degree and several years of hard work as a civilian you can move in to a position that an officer would be able to transition into straight from the military. I agree with Kevin Howell that are some positions that will only look for Officers to fill them and at the same time there are positions that only want NCO(s) to fill them because of the different training, expertise and experiences we bring with us to the civilian sector.
LT Senior Instructor
They are correlated but not equivalent. The main reason I say not equivalent is because I have had people who work for me that I have a ton of respect for. Respect should be shown up and down the ranks. Respect is earned by who you are, not the piece of metal on your uniform. Because respect is earned and we hope our advancement process advances the best, senior ranking people have therefore earned a level of respect even if you haven't worked with them enough to feel that respect personally.
SPC Christopher Smith
Edited >1 y ago
Respect has nothing to do with rank, ultimately when bullets are coming in and the guy to your left or right was a subordinate you never showed respect to you might be SOL when shit hits the fan.

We try to show respect to each other as people first, if you can't do that, you give them enough respect to remain professional because of there rank.
SGM Brigade Operations (S3) Sergeant Major
I conquer with LTC Halvorson that the chart and the question are not passed off clearly. As enlisted member, I show respect where respect is due without regard to the individual rank or position. Enlisted members, Officers and Warrant Officers come with a different set of experiences, education and opportunities through career progression. I believe that each Corp complements one another. Demands on the on the NCO Corp are greater today and we are expected to perform at a new level. I think it’s time for the U.S. Congress to close the pay gap for the Senior Enlisted with that of the Officers and Warrant Officers.
PO1 Master-at-Arms
Edited >1 y ago
Ideally every rank has its place and reason. Then comes the real world where you have to exercise carefully where you throw your rank and where you shut up and collaborate.

That's where experience and wisdom come into play. Bottom line, no matter the rank, ask not what the unit can do for you; ask what you can do for your unit. Over and out
MAJ Deputy Director, Combat Casualty Care Research Program
Edited >1 y ago
A lot of how ranks are perceived depends on where you're at. O-3s in medical are often the lowest rank around. In most meetings I attend it's 90% O-6s with a 2-star or SES leading it. Walking around with CPT bars at a medical center gets you completely different treatment than in a line unit, where O-3 will generally have 5+ years in service and a company command position.
CWO4 Nuclear Weapons Technical Inspector
Edited >1 y ago
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PO1 William "Chip" Nagel
I don't know, but probably pretty close. I know the Skipper always treated me better than any JG and most LTs.
CMSgt Kevin Howell
Forever we've tried to equate enlisted ranks with officer ranks. If you are enlisted you try to equate your rank to an officer, especially after you earn a degree. Most officers don't care too compare, as the youngest 2Lt outranks every other enlisted grade as we know. The bottom line is the ranks are separated for a reason. There is no equal between Commissioned and Non-Commissioned officers and the UCMJ makes that quite clear. Even when you get into industry, the most employers, not all, will make certain position available to officers vice enlisted. It's not that you can't perform the duties, they just know that there is a distinct difference in level of responsibility between the two. My 2 Cents!

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