Rankism. Is there such a thing in the military?

Juniors salute seniors. "Rank-ism" is a bogus concept. Unless you don't really want to be in the service - it's what you signed up for.

Hate to call BS, but the separation between ranks is very necessary. Both from Officer/Enlisted and inside the enlisted ranks. You cannot be buddy/buddy and carry out your combat mission. As far as having a beer together, where are you coming from? I don't know how many times I've had beer and more with my officers, and my enlisted subordinates. But we did not get drunk together nor did we drop common military courtesy at any time. Your feel good training, MRT, should have told you more about good order and discipline in the ranks, instead of trying to assume what causes the number of suicides, assaults, and homicides taking place. If it was just that simple. The rank structure does not treat anyone as second class citizens, inferior leaders do and should be culled out.

Your so called separation is only necessary for those who do not understand the difference between power and influence. Real influence is person centered. People follow you because they respect you personally. Power is about position and people follow based on fear of retaliation. True leaders can motivate people without any position. Nelson Mandela brought a nation to its knees as a prisoner. Most people who think they are leaders are really managers. Take them out of position and a hungry soldier would not follow them from the motor pool to the chow hall. If you can answer yes to these two questions you might be a leader. First question is would anybody follow you without UCMJ or pay? Second question is would anybody pay to follow you? I can answer yes to both questions because I understand the difference between power and influence. For an exhaustive study you can feel free sit in on my class. I lecture at the University of Texas. I also own and operate a leadership academy. Real leaders do not need to hide behind artificial separation in the name of “good order and discipline”. If you are a person of integrity the more people know about you the more they will respect you. If in fact you are a fraud you better run for all the cover you can find and in the end it will never be enough. What are you “soooo afraid” subordinates will find out if they got to know you? Would they find out that you enforce policies on them that you yourself do not adhere to? Like the last time I deployed a senior married commander was sleeping with his “aid” while at the same time slamming enlisted soldiers for doing the same (Kandahar). In a separate situation / same deployment my Company commander was relieved almost immediately upon return from the war zone because his wife found naked photos of his deployment girlfriend on his lap top. The same commander that prosecuted no less than 15 enlisted soldiers for similar offences during deployment. Is that why you can’t lead “buddies” in combat because of hypocrisy? Like I said if you are a true leader you can afford to live and lead by example. If you fall into the above category you better pray the military never gets rid of the fraternization policy because as some so fear subordinates find it hard to place their lives in the hands of hypocrites. In the interest of intelligent discussion I am always open to the fact that I might be completely wrong so somebody please explain to me an intelligent reason why people who can fight and die together must live in separate neighborhoods, socialize in separate clubs and swim in separate pools. We are both supposed to be men / women of integrity yet we cannot engage in a business relationship. So I can trust you in combat but I cannot trust you over a business deal? Somebody please explain to me how this makes since among men / women of impeccable integrity. If in fact we as “leaders” were what we say we are; inside the military community no business deal should need any more contract than a hand shake.

Wow. I like the NJP for the elbow. I thought the same thing about Dan Dailey. I think a lot miss the comparison. If he starts wearing a new hat I am going to lose it.

I would agree that it is really a set of stereotypes that correspond by rank. Sometimes it runs into developing other issues. Like the New LT. He is inexperienced so I won't listen to him. Or even worse is the PSG that casts him to the said and treats him like a child.

I don't think he is aiming it at a soldier like you. I have seen 10 year SPC in the guard or that 15 year SGT that just doesn't want to get out. They are healthy and should advance but they don't want to do anything more than they have too. It think that is what he was talking about. I don't like them either. If you had a reason why you are there that is fine. Your productivity will show your value. But if a 15 year SGT is out done by a 3 year SPC then that SGT needs to go.

That's a possibility, but it would be nice for those making such comments to clarify their statements. You see, the same could be said of those "hanging around" for 30 years, and gumming up the system, not allowing spaces to open up for those of us in the lower ranks, so we wind up with our points being outrageously high on a consistent basis, because there is no room for anyone to advance upward. It's frustrating and leaves a dark spot on our morale.

But should be accept this. You are a police officer. I was one in the past. There are facts that we all know and can agree on. The new guy has the least experience. I don't thing anyone would disagree. But is you were to say that they new guy is worthless I would strongly disagree. You were a MP before you were a civilian LEO. There might have been situations where you knew more than senior officers. We all know that there are some cops there that really don't push as hard as they should and only do the least required. Would you that guy down talking you only because you are the new guy.

Accurate. Very accurate. I was an MP. I was treated like a complete moron when I was a Private. But I didn't complain. Why? Because that was the order of life. It's truly not broke, just people sniveling about "everyone being mean to them."

I saw it, as a right of passage. I was accepted to suffer through the shit with them. I was "allowed to go out and play" instead the guy ignored and left in the barracks all by himself after final formation.

Does this also happen in the Civilian World? Absolutely. Except in the Civilian World, it's highly discouraged. Unions, Lawyers and State Employees/Social Workers, all have jobs because of previous actions done like this. And the mentality of Civilian Employees is far different than Military. They turn their noses to the new people, but you aren't going to see the Shift Supervisor of Walmart Front/Back/Go-ing a cashier for taking too long of a break in the 2'x6' patch of grass

all have

It can happen in the military. I was a scout and we had a very steep learning curve. We had to develop quick. It was not uncommon to see PFC and SPC with Ranger and Halo. They had to develop quick and some did. Some ended up in other units too.

When I came to the line I have seen this in varying degrees. The worst was when a soldier was being treated pretty bad and left drill. He was in the wrong no doubt but when contacted it came to light that his leadership was also in the wrong. It made bad situation worse. I wasn't in that Platoon but we never had an issue like that.

When I was a cop I had spent four years in the Army and was a SGT. I recall my LT trying to play a joke on me. We set up a License check point and my FTO did me to go see the Lt. When I got there he told me go to back and get the box. I asked what box. He just told me to go and that the Box again. I said that this is a horrible joke and that I have seen better. He persisted and repeated himself. So I walked over to my FTOs car to find there was no box. At least he laughed. My FTO realized that I wasn't a regular new guy. I was in Iraq for a year already and new a bit more than guys my age. Like most of those lame jokes. They had some better ones that I did fall for but at least they were good ones. I equated their Box joke to something like telling a prior service officer to get a box of grid squares. It just isn't the same.