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Posted on Jun 27, 2023
Should retired officers, who are not in uniform, return a salute?
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Should retired officers, who are not in uniform, return a salute?
I see soldiers at the gate salute me when I come through, even though I present my retired ID card -- and sometimes when I show my contractor CAC. I get that it's respect to my retired rank, but only GOs retain their rank when they retire. And, since I now have a beard and am never in uniform, it feels weird returning a salute. What say you?
I see soldiers at the gate salute me when I come through, even though I present my retired ID card -- and sometimes when I show my contractor CAC. I get that it's respect to my retired rank, but only GOs retain their rank when they retire. And, since I now have a beard and am never in uniform, it feels weird returning a salute. What say you?
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 152
Suspended Profile
"Salutes are not required to be rendered by or to personnel who are driving or riding in privately-owned vehicles, except by gate guards (military personnel only) who will (AR 600–25) render salutes to recognized officers in ALL (emphasis added) vehicles unless duties are of such a nature as to make the salute impractical." Also, "salutes are not required to be rendered or returned when the senior or subordinate or both are in civilian attire."
If a military gate guard salutes you it is a courtesy, even if you are retired, and even though it's not required. Personally, I return the courtesy, just as I did when I was in uniform, and since I am at a complete stop it doesn't interfere with my ability as the driver of the car. Salutes are not "required" by either party, but they are also not prohibited. It would feel very wrong to me to be saluted at the gate and then drive off without having acknowledged the trooper's courtesy.
If a military gate guard salutes you it is a courtesy, even if you are retired, and even though it's not required. Personally, I return the courtesy, just as I did when I was in uniform, and since I am at a complete stop it doesn't interfere with my ability as the driver of the car. Salutes are not "required" by either party, but they are also not prohibited. It would feel very wrong to me to be saluted at the gate and then drive off without having acknowledged the trooper's courtesy.
show previous comments
LCDR Jerry Maurer
I stopped and asked, and was told I wasn't required to salute. I asked what the gate guard would prefer. He told me that he was going to salute me either way in honor of my service. I said in that case I should return his salute and he said he would be honored to receive it. Since then I always return a salute, simple courtesy and, quite frankly, as a lowly 0-4, it makes my day.
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MSgt Bobby Gene
Returning a salute is just a classy way to show appreciation to the courtesy rendered.
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MAJ Joe L
Well said.
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MAJ Stephen Barnard
SFC Michael Lindenbusch - It's also worth noting that different nations have different customs and regulations. For example, in the British Army you always remove headgear when inside a building, and you never salute when not wearing a hat / beret, whether indoors or outside.
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LTC Dallas Powell, I'm confused by your statement that "only GOs retain their rank when they retire". Why do you think that?
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LTC Matthew Schlosser
1SG(P) Dean Mcbride (MPER) (SPHR) - I don't care what some clerk typist put on your DD-214. Retirees aren't promotable, and an E-8 who isn't occupying a 1SG billet is a MSG. If you're impressed by academic credentials, you haven't been forced to endure as many overeducated morons as I have!
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1SG(P) Dean Mcbride (MPER) (SPHR)
LTC Matthew Schlosser - Just a quick look at your full profile tells me a lot. It reads like you are unhappy with your academics and disgruntled with some of your service.
An additional point about my rank. When I retired I was presented with recall orders that could be inacted in an emergency - my recall assignment was as a First Sergeant in an Armored unit (probably due to retiring at Fort Knox - it was the armor center at that time.) If recalled, I would also still be a Promotable E-8...
Basically, I could give a "Rats A@#" about what you think. I served 22 years in the US Army and am proud of my service. I went to college after I retired and received an undergraduate and a graduate degree and I am proud of that accomplishment.
Yes, I have seen a few overeducated morons but, I do not use the same brush to paint everyone with an education.
An additional point about my rank. When I retired I was presented with recall orders that could be inacted in an emergency - my recall assignment was as a First Sergeant in an Armored unit (probably due to retiring at Fort Knox - it was the armor center at that time.) If recalled, I would also still be a Promotable E-8...
Basically, I could give a "Rats A@#" about what you think. I served 22 years in the US Army and am proud of my service. I went to college after I retired and received an undergraduate and a graduate degree and I am proud of that accomplishment.
Yes, I have seen a few overeducated morons but, I do not use the same brush to paint everyone with an education.
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LTC Matthew Schlosser
1SG(P) Dean Mcbride (MPER) (SPHR) - It actually doesn't surprise me that you're impressed by people advertising their academic credentials. You're clearly unhappy that you never made E-9, and you probably coerced people into addressing you as "master sergeant" when you weren't in a 1SG billet. As for my own academics, I have three degrees paid for by the Army and none of them define me any more than the one the VA is buying me now. I'm certainly NOT disgruntled with my service. I went into the Army with the goal of being a FAO, achieved that, and enjoyed every minute of it. But I'm the son of a Sergeant Major and a keen judge of senior NCOs. Anyone who would emphasize "1SG" and "promotable" when neither is relevant as a retiree has serious self esteem issues and was probably as toxic a leader as the 1SG I had when I was an XO. (Thankfully, my 1SG in command was a solid leader.)
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1SG(P) Dean Mcbride (MPER) (SPHR)
LTC Matthew Schlosser - Following is an excert from the current US Army policy regarding retirement with the title of First Sergeant and with Promotable status. Hopefully, with this new information, you will reevaluate some of your previous thinking.
A First Sergeant in the US Army can retire with that title, but there are specific conditions:
Current Service: If a soldier is serving as a 1SG at the time of retirement, they retire with that rank.
Previous Service (New 2022 Policy): Since January 1, 2022, Army policy allows Master Sergeants who previously served successfully as a First Sergeant but are currently in a terminal staff position to have their retirement orders read as First Sergeant.
Promotable Status (P): If you are a First Sergeant (P) and retire before making SGM, you retire as a First Sergeant (P).
Social Use: Retired military personnel can use their highest attained rank socially, but it must not bring discredit to the service.
I was serving as a First Sergeant (Promotable) when I retired so it was not some inefficient clerk typist that put the title on my DD-214. He or she was following the regulations.
A First Sergeant in the US Army can retire with that title, but there are specific conditions:
Current Service: If a soldier is serving as a 1SG at the time of retirement, they retire with that rank.
Previous Service (New 2022 Policy): Since January 1, 2022, Army policy allows Master Sergeants who previously served successfully as a First Sergeant but are currently in a terminal staff position to have their retirement orders read as First Sergeant.
Promotable Status (P): If you are a First Sergeant (P) and retire before making SGM, you retire as a First Sergeant (P).
Social Use: Retired military personnel can use their highest attained rank socially, but it must not bring discredit to the service.
I was serving as a First Sergeant (Promotable) when I retired so it was not some inefficient clerk typist that put the title on my DD-214. He or she was following the regulations.
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Yes. Return the courtesy.
And you DO retain your last rank, if you held it for at least 3 years. You are subject to involuntary recall up to age 60, and can still be voluntarily recalled after that age. If reactivated, you serve at your permanent rank. No PT test, no OER, no possibility of promotion. Recalled personnel are, by regulation, intended to be put in positions that don't require a lot of exertion or high risk. They would fill critical skill shortages, or fill admin / log / support positions to free up active duty personnel for more pressing needs. Several of my colleagues were reactivated to fill needs related to 9/11. One served for more than 5 additional years, the other for more than 12 additional years.
And you DO retain your last rank, if you held it for at least 3 years. You are subject to involuntary recall up to age 60, and can still be voluntarily recalled after that age. If reactivated, you serve at your permanent rank. No PT test, no OER, no possibility of promotion. Recalled personnel are, by regulation, intended to be put in positions that don't require a lot of exertion or high risk. They would fill critical skill shortages, or fill admin / log / support positions to free up active duty personnel for more pressing needs. Several of my colleagues were reactivated to fill needs related to 9/11. One served for more than 5 additional years, the other for more than 12 additional years.
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CW3 Tamara Peruzzo
Warrant Officers only need to hold their last rank for 30 days to retain it into retirement. All other rules apply the same as "traditional commissioned" officers.
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Right before I got out, AF personnel were still using the DoD stickers on their windshield. The stickers were three part: the actual number, the year on the left side for currency, and the locale sticker underneath. The locale sticker colors differed by rank, and officers had blue ones.
We saluted the sticker. It might have been the officer, the officer's spouse, or his/her kids. Maybe active, Guard, or Reserve. They might have been in civilian clothes. They might have returned the salute. That was it. Salute. Wave them on. Next car.
We went to 100% ID checks after that, but officers still got saluted. Once we saw the rank, we saluted. We never noticed on their DD Form 2 if they were retired.
Of course, that was in garrison under normal ThreatCon. That got suspended after 9/11.
Should retired officers salute? I am certain we appreciated the returned gesture. Did we notice it? Maybe. Did it impact our standing orders to initiate a salute to all officers? No.
We saluted the sticker. It might have been the officer, the officer's spouse, or his/her kids. Maybe active, Guard, or Reserve. They might have been in civilian clothes. They might have returned the salute. That was it. Salute. Wave them on. Next car.
We went to 100% ID checks after that, but officers still got saluted. Once we saw the rank, we saluted. We never noticed on their DD Form 2 if they were retired.
Of course, that was in garrison under normal ThreatCon. That got suspended after 9/11.
Should retired officers salute? I am certain we appreciated the returned gesture. Did we notice it? Maybe. Did it impact our standing orders to initiate a salute to all officers? No.
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LTC Dallas Powell It's a good way to give a polite "thank you" when you return a salute, regardless of your attire. Your rank is indeed being recognized and visually acknowledged.
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Respectfully Sir, have you read your retirement orders? "On date placed on the retired list, you are transferred to the United States Army Reserve Control Group (Retired), United States Army Human Resources Command." Maybe yours are written different, but mine say transferred, not seperated or dismissed, and I still consider myself part of the Army just under a command that does not require me to show. They can also still hit me with UCMJ (very unlikely but still possible).
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LTC Dallas Powell
Fair enough -- but if I have no authority as an officer, and recalls for the last 30+ years have always been voluntary, what does that really mean?
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SCPO (Join to see)
Yes, military retirees are subject to involuntary recall in certain circumstances. I was working at the old Coast Guard Headquarters building across the street from Fort McNair. Many times we would use their chow hall for lunch since, being junior enlisted, it was cheaper than the cafeteria in our building. One day I happened to get into a conversation with a retired Army Sergeant First Class. He said that he had to lock up the 7-11 store that he owned in retirement because he was recalled and had no one to run it. He said that they needed a tank desert warfare expert for one of the conflicts that we got into at that particular time. Granted that that particular situation happened a long time ago, but that does not mean that it hasn't happened since or couldn't happen in the future.
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MAJ Byron Oyler
LTC Dallas Powell - Not all officers have authority over something and many do not. I was commissioned for my skills as a registered nurse and is a position I still do full time on the civilian side. The only thing different for me is I was placed into the retired command and dont wear a green uniform to work but everything else is the same.
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Who told you that only GOs retain their rank when they retire? I retired, and I still hold my commission. I will continue to hold it at the pleasure of the National Command Authority or until they remove it. I'll die a commissioned officer. Dead, but still commissioned (*smiling*).
Remember, those guards are not saluting *you* but rather acknowledging your RANK. That doesn't matter if you're wearing sweats, civilian clothes, or haven't shaved in two months.
A returned salute and a "thanks" would be the most appropriate response. Of course, you can use my greeting "stay warm and dry" also.
Remember, those guards are not saluting *you* but rather acknowledging your RANK. That doesn't matter if you're wearing sweats, civilian clothes, or haven't shaved in two months.
A returned salute and a "thanks" would be the most appropriate response. Of course, you can use my greeting "stay warm and dry" also.
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PO1 William Wilson
Thank you Col. I think everyone should remember what we all went through to earn our rank. What we had to do to earn our rank differs from individual to individual. We all EARNED them! Whether enlisted or an officer, we all deserve the respect of our fellow service members. Quit worrying about whether that salute was deserved. I was Earned.
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I'm a Reservist living near an AF base where I go for all of my commissary, PX, and sometimes gym time with friends. Very rarely (if ever) am I in uniform there and I generally have a beard unless it's the week after Drill Weekend. I always return the salute since it was rendered to me.
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