Posted on May 17, 2016
Scenario: A Soldier gets QMP'D over 15 but less than 18. How is that fair when a QSP and Officer are both entitled to a retirement?
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I would somewhat disagree about quality people are not getting qmp'd. Plenty of quality people are getting qmp'd. Just because they made one mistake in their career, served their punishment and drove on. Isn't that what the army is preaching right now resiliency? If a soldier messes up one time and gets punished and then bounces back isn't that a prime example of resiliency? The army needs to look at everyone for qmp. I know plenty of soldiers who have had dui's, sharp,eo, and other violations swept under the rug. It's a flawed system that nobody is in a hurry to fix.
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SFC Casey O'Mally
However, if those offenses were swept under the rug, their is nothing in their records to indicate poor performance. Centralized boards only go by what is in your records. In essence, QMP DOES look at everyone. The first screening, done by HRC, is for Soldiers who have anything to indicate a potential for QMP. After that, those with potential for QMP are then sent to the centralized board for review.
But it HAS TO BE IN THE RECORDS or the NCO or Officer will never face the consequences of being a dirtbag. This is one of the reasons why writing fair and HONEST evaluations at ALL ranks is so important.
But it HAS TO BE IN THE RECORDS or the NCO or Officer will never face the consequences of being a dirtbag. This is one of the reasons why writing fair and HONEST evaluations at ALL ranks is so important.
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SFC David Reid, M.S, PHR, SHRM-CP, DTM
SGM (Join to see) - I agree - Bad Things Happen to Good People All of the time!
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Borrow a little from MAJ Carl Ballinger . A QMP is for misconduct and an NCO is essentially being fired by a centralized board. A QSP is based upon determined potential; the Officer is essentially being laid-off by a centralized board. Now the type of misconduct for a QMP is where things get debatable. It could be something bad like a SHARP or EO issue, or something minor like a dust up with your rating chain. I don’t think it is fair for the minor offenses, but on the serious ones the question becomes why were they not already chaptered. TERA is not an entitlement, so you cannot assume it is guaranteed. If TERA was guaranteed, you would have a spate of SM’s suddenly get fat or fail their APFT at the 15 year mark and exit with a pro-rated retirement.
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SGM (Join to see)
The problem is there is SO much filthiness in the QMP process. The GOMOR is the Army's dirty little secret...as phrased by a notable retired Army lawyer. He explains how the Article 15 has been amended numerous times thru the years but he QMP has not and needs to be abolished. The QMP is a tricky thing. If someone has a beef on you and you get a GOMOR in your permanent record, unlike an article 15, you CANNOT fight it because it is considered "administrative Action" but in today' Army it's equally as horrible as having an Article 15. So, crimes are stated as if it were judicial action but there is often little to no proof, therefore a GOMOR is given over an Article 15 because you HAVE to have evidence for the Article 15. As for SHARP and EO complaints? While some are legit and very bad, others are not. This is the extra sensitive boy scouts Army we are now in. We care more about SHARP then we do training. it's sad when a SGM told me recently that for me to have a solid edge on the SGM board the key is getting SHARP trained. That's what the Army has come down to. Forget being in the Joint Staff, having high speed assignments..master's degree....it's more important to have SHARP...Ridiculous. As for QMP, I have seen Soldiers that should be released, but I have ALSO witnessed first hand Soldiers that were the victim of a vendetta, and that should NEVER exist to determine a Soldier's future....but sadly, it often does
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CPT Mark Gonzalez
SGM (Join to see) - No doubt that the GOMOR utilization is flawed. Most people who get a GOMOR deserve it, but I am sure there is a larger margin of error due to my own personal observations. I use to serve them to people and it became obvious due to spelling or material errors that the general officer didn't even read the memo before he signed it, nevertheless read the packet. Every GO is different, but without a doubt some simply did not assign value to the task.
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SGM (Join to see)
Well Sir, I will tell you without reservation or embarrassment that I was awarded a GOMOR several years ago. Thru an incredible stroke of luck, it did not go into my permanent file, it stayed local, and I have since PCSed so it's not a factor anymore. But without boring you with details..because it's a VERY long story, My Army lawyer, who was also an O-3, was totally disgusted with what was happening to me, I was flagged for a friggin year, and everytime my new commander tried to unflag me, my upper command would re-flag me without telling me. I did not get arrested, I did nothing legally wrong..and I fixed whatever issue their was at my level..immediately ..and yet thru a blatant personal vendetta, my "issue" was taken to a 2 star simply because my Colonel was his long time personal friend..and then my 1 year of hell started. I ASKED to be given an Article 15 ( ever here of a Soldier ASKING for this? ) because I new I could win in court, and my Lawyer told me to ask them to go that route. But they did not..and the reason is because they KNEW they would be stripped naked in court. So, my view of GOMORS are VERY different. I know first hand how underhanded they can be. I have had over 32 years of Active and Reserve total time..I am Currently an AGR with 16+ total active years. But had that GOMOR gone into my permanent file, I would not be in the Army now...despite a fantastic and fruitful Career...all because an incompetent reserve ( TPU ) Commander had a personality conflict with me. And oh yes, the GOMOR had the WRONG date on it. It was dated 2 years in the future, and it went thru legal and made it's way to me that way. I would have LOVED to have seen this go to a courts martial!
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Some people need to be fired and the QMP is great for that. So no sympathy for many offenses. However, the QMP method is busted. A centralized board is eliminating personnel for offenses from x years ago, because for whatever reason the commanders didn't do it when the offense occurred. To strike people down for one blemish creates a yes-man careerism mentality. I guess one dust up with your rating chain can end your career. It may not be enough to get an article 15 or court martial, but can end your career during a draw down if it goes in the eval? Who is going to be left to advice leaders on poor decisions if your career can be buried without due process?
I'm not getting separated or handed an OSB, but you have to recognize flaws within a system to try and fix it. Otherwise, you are canning the wrong people.
I'm not getting separated or handed an OSB, but you have to recognize flaws within a system to try and fix it. Otherwise, you are canning the wrong people.
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SGM Mikel Dawson
CPT Mark Gonzalez It's the down sizing which feeds this monster, and yes the system is not flaw free.
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