Posted on Apr 15, 2015
Sexual assault by the TSA: Is this an isolated incident or the result of a cultural flaw?
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Please take a minute to read this article in the Atlantic, then vote in the Survey and provide your comments.
http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2015/04/where-did-the-tsa-agent-touch-you/390561/
Is this a cultural problem? How could the investigation be better executed? Why did it take so long to investigate? Why are names of people fired for cause being withheld? How could an organization with access to such strict record keeping fail to notify at least the individual groped while an investigator watched?
Far more importantly: does a blanket search of every person intending to board a plane represent a violation of the 4th amendment protection to be secure in your papers and person?
http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2015/04/where-did-the-tsa-agent-touch-you/390561/
Is this a cultural problem? How could the investigation be better executed? Why did it take so long to investigate? Why are names of people fired for cause being withheld? How could an organization with access to such strict record keeping fail to notify at least the individual groped while an investigator watched?
Far more importantly: does a blanket search of every person intending to board a plane represent a violation of the 4th amendment protection to be secure in your papers and person?
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 9
We need to trash Homeland Security and return to basic governmental services (as enumerated in the Constitution). If there is a threat to air travel, allow the airlines to handle it. They can hire experts from El Al and learn how to do it
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Capt Richard I P.
CPT Jack Durish Well put! I agree that the TSA is uniquely and inherently flawed from its foundation.
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When I first heard this story - and when I heard the recent similar Secret Service story - I thought that it's not just the military that has a problem with sexual assault and sexual harassment. It's a problem (a part) of the human condition, and it will probably never go away, at least not as long as people have sex drives, which often overpower their ability to reason and act reasonably.
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Capt Richard I P.
CW5 (Join to see) I think that's a fair argument, what do you think about how the investigation was conducted and the other questions? The 4th amendment issue?
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Was it finally discovered and reported after a different man went through the security screening 20 times in the same day and made everyone miss their flight? As Cleveland Brown says, "That's just nasty." I hope they charge him with 1,000 counts of whatever offense this is considered and he can see how it feels from behind bars.
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Oh how I remember we need the TSA because contracted security could not possibly do the job as well as a g
overnment program can do.
overnment program can do.
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Capt Richard I P.
Capt (Join to see) I agree with the sarcasm. I think private industry was better suited to the task from a performance perspective, but more important to me is the constitutional challenge of unwarranted mass searches.
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I would say "All of the Above." A nice even mixture of option 2 and 3, with a heavy dose of option 4 and a pinch of option 1, would round it all out nicely.....
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Capt Richard I P.
PO1 (Join to see) I think you make a decent point about a combination of causes, but I wrote the answers to try to rule out combinations. Which do you think is 'most right?' And what's the solution? Uniquely flawed beyond repair-Abolish? Typical large bureaucracy-tolerate? Just need some good leadership?
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PO1 (Join to see)
I would say that for an organization such as TSA that it fits the option four bill a lot more than the others. I find it amazing the things they are able to get away with in the name of "security" and while there may be a lot of great ones taking pride in their job and product I would say those individuals are the exception and not the rule. Being that I travel a lot this perception is from both a personal and professional one by viewing everything from an "who cares" attitude to the actions of the "employees" in this article. I am of the mind that when working in customer service entailed jobs (like these) if you don't at least like coming to work then get another job. I don't need someone ruining my day because they hate their life.
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The fact that the whistleblower had to remain anonymous inidcates to me that it is not only tolerated, but that it is acceptable to the TSA. That reflects on their leadership all the way up. It is ridiculous that the TSA has gone so far off the deep end that this doesn't strike anyone as odd. Furthermore seeing some of the things that have made it through TSA screening makes me wonder if it really is like that scene in the movie airplane where the guy with a bazooka goes right through, but the little old lady gets put up against the wall. I used to fly often, and it was always an exciting adventure. Now it is just a pain in the ass. The worst part is there really is nothing you can do about it other than not fly. Complaining about poor treatment gets ignored. Look at this case, it was two months from the time that it was reported to the time action was taken. That only occured when a supervisor caught the team in the act.
These people are supposed to be increasing the safety of passengers, not committing a sex crime against them. If that person groped one person's genitals on the street, not only would he likely take a beating, he would be charged with a crime. Depending on the state he may even have to register as a sex offender. In the TSA he is simply terminated and told to find a new job. Nice work as usual TSA. You wonder why nobody likes or trusts you? that is why.
These people are supposed to be increasing the safety of passengers, not committing a sex crime against them. If that person groped one person's genitals on the street, not only would he likely take a beating, he would be charged with a crime. Depending on the state he may even have to register as a sex offender. In the TSA he is simply terminated and told to find a new job. Nice work as usual TSA. You wonder why nobody likes or trusts you? that is why.
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Capt Richard I P.
PO3 Steven Sherrill You make some very good points, did you pick #4? An inherent flaw in the TSA itself?
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PO3 Steven Sherrill
Capt Richard I P. I actually picked option #5 though #4 is good as well, I just felt since I was about to go on a rant, #5 was better.
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Environment that promotes abuse.
I have actively fought against the concept of the TSA since it's inception.
It has FAR to much power for what it does. There is no check nor balance against it. It is effectively an independent organization, which cannot be fought, reviewed, or investigated.
What's worse, because they hide behind "Security" we cannot even look at their rules to see if they are following them, or have them.
Why can't we have liquids over 4oz? Why is a Coke bought outside security less safe than one bought inside?
I have hit the point where I refuse to fly.
I have actively fought against the concept of the TSA since it's inception.
It has FAR to much power for what it does. There is no check nor balance against it. It is effectively an independent organization, which cannot be fought, reviewed, or investigated.
What's worse, because they hide behind "Security" we cannot even look at their rules to see if they are following them, or have them.
Why can't we have liquids over 4oz? Why is a Coke bought outside security less safe than one bought inside?
I have hit the point where I refuse to fly.
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Capt Richard I P.
Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS I agree. I'd prefer not to fly if it were not so darned convenient. Unless we are running quite late I make them pat me down, I want them to confront the consequences of their violations as directly as possible. See my argument on this thread on the inherent violation of the 4th, and the available simple workaround.
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There are so many reasons that it is hard to point to just one area. Most troubling is the nature of some individuals not being fit for dealing with people where you have to put your hands on their bodies.
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4. I'd say abolish the TSA. Its blanket searches comprise a federal violation of the 4th amendment as a matter of policy. Replace with private security guards hired by the airports/airlines and include a consent to search clause in any plane ticket purchase. The feds can establish safe standards of searching and handle the inspections and performance, but private security executes in accordance with the contract signed by airline passengers. Neatly sidesteps the constitutional issue, allows for maintaining 100% screening and brings the free market into enforcing behavior of screeners.
A related topic on TSA misbehavior:
https://www.rallypoint.com/answers/over-400-tsa-workers-arrested-for-theft-alone-and-not-one-terrorist-caught-should-national-guard-replace-them
A related topic on TSA misbehavior:
https://www.rallypoint.com/answers/over-400-tsa-workers-arrested-for-theft-alone-and-not-one-terrorist-caught-should-national-guard-replace-them
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Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS
The reason the TSA continues to exist is because AIRLINES want it to exist. As long as TSA exists, CITIZENS pay for Security instead of AIRLINES.
They are able to conveniently pass on the cost to the customers and we can't argue it.
They are able to conveniently pass on the cost to the customers and we can't argue it.
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Capt Richard I P.
Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS I think you're probably right. My argument is from a 'should be' not an 'is' perspective.
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Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS
Capt Richard I P. I agree with you 100%, but "follow the money" led me to the reality of the situation.
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