Posted on Apr 12, 2014
Shaved heads in basic training; is this mandatory? If it is, then why and why only for males?
279K
6.75K
1.02K
615
615
0
So I was in basic training land today to help with some medical stuff. I couldn't help but noticed all the shaved heads all over the place and then the females with 20 ft of hair. In an era where we are screaming equal treatment; is this equal?I am also wondering why does a new private have to get his head shaved in the first place? Why not just a haircut within Army Standards?
Have the lines between male and female been erased? Are they trying to be erased or are we picking and choosing which ones we want to erase? Why does a male soldier have no choice in keeping his hair but a female does? If you love Liberty you will vote below.
ADDED: Could this be considered a form of hazing with the crackdown on hazing since this is obviously not a requirement but more of a tradition? I'm not saying I think it is I'm just asking the question. If it's not required and it doesn't apply to everyone.
*****UPDATED******
Well, well, well what do we have here?
http://www.navytimes.com/story/military/careers/2015/01/08/rtc-boot-camp-haircuts-navy/21439483/
Have the lines between male and female been erased? Are they trying to be erased or are we picking and choosing which ones we want to erase? Why does a male soldier have no choice in keeping his hair but a female does? If you love Liberty you will vote below.
ADDED: Could this be considered a form of hazing with the crackdown on hazing since this is obviously not a requirement but more of a tradition? I'm not saying I think it is I'm just asking the question. If it's not required and it doesn't apply to everyone.
*****UPDATED******
Well, well, well what do we have here?
http://www.navytimes.com/story/military/careers/2015/01/08/rtc-boot-camp-haircuts-navy/21439483/
Edited >1 y ago
Posted 11 y ago
Responses: 458
I do think their should be some further restriction on females hair standards in basic, if the same is going to be held true for males. Maybe not full on shaved, considering the fact that the normal standard isn't as short as males, but a shorter, uniform cut. I'm not even going to attempt to say how short, but something along those lines. You'd have a hard time arguing unequal treatment then.
(6)
(0)
CPT William Jones
The same as is quite different from just cut to 1/2 inch The SAME MEANS JUST ALIKE WITH NO DIFFERENCE.
(0)
(0)
Taking a look at civilian males, the males who have stable, higher paying jobs are the ones who usually have a better kept, well groomed hair style. With that being said, the lower enlisted (especially the ones who already have that "fuck it" attitude) would develope quite a homely appearance. If males were allowed to grow their hair like females(most, normal females quite enjoy pampering their hair)
(6)
(0)
SPC Daniel Alexander
Not all females take care of their hair. Infact your entire post is downright sexist.
(1)
(0)
Not that hair standards should be that big of a deal anyway, but there are many points one could argue
- since when were females ever really treated equally in the military
- males getting their heads shaved creates uniformity/being able to have hair is some kind of right of passage mumbo jumbo
- The number of female recruits would drastically dwindle if they had to shave their heads for 9 weeks. (That would've been a deal breaker for me)
- show me a man who doesn't appreciate a woman with a beautiful head of hair
- Drill sergeant or not, no one wants to stare at bald females. Female's hair is all they get to preen over in basic. You take that away, and morale is certain to nosedive
- since when were females ever really treated equally in the military
- males getting their heads shaved creates uniformity/being able to have hair is some kind of right of passage mumbo jumbo
- The number of female recruits would drastically dwindle if they had to shave their heads for 9 weeks. (That would've been a deal breaker for me)
- show me a man who doesn't appreciate a woman with a beautiful head of hair
- Drill sergeant or not, no one wants to stare at bald females. Female's hair is all they get to preen over in basic. You take that away, and morale is certain to nosedive
(6)
(0)
SPC (Join to see)
Good point. If males shouldn't be focusing on Female's hair, what does their hair length matter?
(2)
(0)
SSG Robert Burns
I honestly have no idea what these last 2 comments are about. What in the world are you two talking about?
(1)
(0)
(2)
(0)
A1C Jake Wagner
Honestly if having your head shaved would have been a deal breaker on enlisting, maybe you have chosen the wrong career firld. Serving in the armed forces is aboutmore than yourself, if you can set aside your hair during bct/bmt and put service before self, you should probably reevaluate.
(3)
(0)
Because (imagine drill sergeant voice as he addresses new recruits): "No one cares where you came from!"
Annihilate whatever baggage in terms of irrelevant, civilian-world status that new inductees have brought with them in their minds. The only thing about them that matters during IET is that they've decided to become Soldiers and they are now learning to be Soldiers. Everything else is nothing. You've kids from all over country, from different backgrounds, with different attitudes, and different personalities, many of whom never would have encountered each other in civilian life. They now have in common that most important thing (Soldiering). Focus them on that.
With regard to females: Hair matters more for females and it takes longer to grow it back to a conventional female hair length. I would keep shaving for males, not for females.
Annihilate whatever baggage in terms of irrelevant, civilian-world status that new inductees have brought with them in their minds. The only thing about them that matters during IET is that they've decided to become Soldiers and they are now learning to be Soldiers. Everything else is nothing. You've kids from all over country, from different backgrounds, with different attitudes, and different personalities, many of whom never would have encountered each other in civilian life. They now have in common that most important thing (Soldiering). Focus them on that.
With regard to females: Hair matters more for females and it takes longer to grow it back to a conventional female hair length. I would keep shaving for males, not for females.
(5)
(0)
It quite one thing to have a Man with a shaved head, its way beyond unreasonable to expect any female to do that. Standards of training are one thing, the very thought of even thinking of imposing that on any female is totally unjustified in my opinion. That has nothing at all to do with anyone's potential or ability to train for the Military and although there are hair standards for either males or females carry that so far, how many females do You think will allow themselves to be subjected to that unreasonable requirement ? It serves no purpose at all !
(5)
(0)
PO1 Jeffrey Pennala
SMSgt Lawrence McCarter, SPC Kristen Townsend, SGT David A. 'Cowboy' Groth, SFC(P) Josh Morgan, maybe that was true in the days of iron men and wooden ships or when airplanes were made of wood and fabric. These days are filled with identity politics "toxic masculinity" and "toxic feminism" the hair thing is just another "privilege divider" just make it the same for everybody. Why is it bad for women to have their haircut? Don't you think men would like to have their hair styled too, especially these days? It is a double standard, but it is also an opportunity to bring some cohesiveness to the whole process a shared "equal" experience, not a "when I went to boot camp men had their heads shaved and women had their hair styled". You know because women are privileged and need to be carried and protected through boot camp because without special treatment they wouldn't do it, is that really the sentiment we are communicating with this double standard?
(1)
(0)
SMSgt Lawrence McCarter
PO1 Jeffrey Pennala - I'm not suggesting they be given lighter training but expecting a woman's head to be shaved isn't and never has been reasonable. Shaved heads is even an acceptable style for men but not for women unless there was a natural problem with baldness. I don't see that as being privileged but as an unreasonable and unjustified expectation. There is nothing toxic about men being men and women being woman and keeping their sexual identity and in all case expected to be held to the same training standards to do the same job. Anything more ( which already takes into account hair regulations including style and length for women in uniform) goes way beyond any double standard.
(0)
(0)
PO1 Jeffrey Pennala
SMSgt Lawrence McCarter the demand has been made and heard from all the brass hats and congress critters that women will fulfill roles traditionally held by men. Equal is equal, the same standard should apply to all. I would have loved to have my haircut to the "legal standard allowed" by the regs at the time, but it was shaved, not just made uniform legal. That is a double standard, to imply that men don't care how their hair looks is outside of the realm of reality, but women should be able to choose. Why? Because what? They are women is the only reason hence a double standard, so you recognize there are differences!! How to reconcile that men and women are equal doctrine that prevails today, either they are equal in respects in the MOS's/NEC's they fill or are women just more equal than men when filling traditional male billets? Just saying, I think it is a shame we to pretend that there are no differences between the sexes so we can be politically correct. I am all in favor of riding that policy over the cliff it will eventually fall off so we can finally rid ourselves of the make believe SJW mindset out of the society. It is ruining the military, colleges and universities, workplaces, and in all aspects of American life these days. You can't even watch a movie without seeing a 90lb woman beating the crap out of a 250lb professional bodyguard. They ruined Ghostbusters, Star Wars, and hundreds of other movie franchises and TV shows. I am tired of it and am waiting to see it to its final conclusion, we can look back, sigh, and say "what were we thinking".
(2)
(0)
SMSgt Lawrence McCarter
PO1 Jeffrey Pennala - I was in a career field that was all Men, it did open up and women were slowly moved into that field and most of them adapted quite well and were effective and independent in their duty performance. In later years after women had already proved they could do that job they became a permanent part of that career field , Specifically I speak of the Security Police/Security Forces. Making women look like Men to do the same job is in my opinion overstepping any reasonable expectations, its duty performance that concerns Me and along with a proper Military appearance keeping within reasonable standards. There are some people both male and female that aren't suited to that career field but most that work that job do meet or exceed the standards. Doing anything to be politically correct is a major problem and the two sexes do have differences but they don't tend to be motivation, duty performance or patriotism. Training however, for male or females is another related subject, either You meet the standard and do whats expected of You or You don't belong there !
(0)
(0)
With the lines being erased as far as combat arms is concerned between males and females, I feel that cutting a woman's hair short offers no problems at all and should be done along with everyone else. Not only is it a great equalizer between both sexes, it offers a way of "cleansing away" your old life, bringing about a new one.. symbolically.
(5)
(0)
PO1 Autumn Sandeen
As a transgender vet, let me say that current regs across all the US uniform services enforce western societal sex and gender norms, and this includes uniform regs on acceptable hair styles and hair length. The libertarian part of my soul asks the question "Should enforcing sex and gender norms should be a function of government?" Other than enforcing societal sex and gender norms, I don't see a reason.
(2)
(0)
In today's world enforce the standard.
Also everyone 18+ should sign up for selective service no exceptions
Also everyone 18+ should sign up for selective service no exceptions
(5)
(0)
SSgt Boyd Herrst
At 17 I joined AF Ready Reserve on my B’day. An opportunity came the following year to go Active AF
And I took it.(they needed the AFSC I had. I became Active duty on my 18th B’day. Shortly after the Sqdn Clerk asked if I ever signed for selective service. He had my 201 opened in front of him, why ask a
Stupid question. The answer is in front of him.. So I never answered ... ($&@€£¥%#|\!) I didn’t believe I needed to.. I pulled out my cover and put it on on the way out the door.. I think he figured it out a few days later..
And I took it.(they needed the AFSC I had. I became Active duty on my 18th B’day. Shortly after the Sqdn Clerk asked if I ever signed for selective service. He had my 201 opened in front of him, why ask a
Stupid question. The answer is in front of him.. So I never answered ... ($&@€£¥%#|\!) I didn’t believe I needed to.. I pulled out my cover and put it on on the way out the door.. I think he figured it out a few days later..
(0)
(0)
(5)
(0)
The head shave is one of the first tangible indicators that the new recruit is no longer an individual, but now part of a team. It is a very effective psychological factor in preparing the recruit for the training and rigors of the military. The women's equivalent is having to adhere to stringent hairstyle regulations. A different but substantial equivalent. Remember seeing a female recruit get royally dressed down for not following the standard set. Made me glad I was a guy at that point with one less thing to worry about.
(4)
(0)
Army = No Gender. Male or female you're a soldier and should be treated as such.
(3)
(0)
I have to say Girls shouldn't shave their heads! They need their hair to learn how to put their hair up nice and neat in a matter of time. Unlike guys all we have to do is get a hair cut. My personal opinion of couse!
(3)
(0)
SGT Wanda Shepherd
My problem is the men who say women should have their heads shaved because it would be funny. We should be respected no matter the regulation.
(0)
(0)
No guy shoulf be so damn upset about a buzz cut justbget over yourself its the Army just suck it the fuck up. For women it demeaning to be shaved bald its not the same for us if you dont like the get out.
(3)
(0)
As long as there are different standards for men and women, there will always be inequalities. They should all be the same. Let everyone prove themselves.
(3)
(0)
I wish we could have had more haircuts. Every other week at Basic in the summer heat was not enough in my opinion. As far as females go; If they want to keep their hair, fine. I couldn't imagine trying to keep it all clean or have to constantly fix my bun or whatever. I really don't think hair has anything to do with fairness or equality (and they are not the same thing) and your hair is your own problem.
(3)
(0)
What's good for one is good for all and good for the service.
Demi Moore, "GI Jane", 'nuff said
Demi Moore, "GI Jane", 'nuff said
(3)
(0)
Back in 66 when I went in we were told it was a lice thing. LOL Who woulda thought the Military would lie to us.
(2)
(0)
It's all about time management. Takes less time to maintain that hair, and takes much less time at the barbershop whe you take 150 people to get either 1 haircut, or 150 individual haircuts.
(2)
(0)
Read This Next