Posted on Apr 12, 2014
SSG Robert Burns
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Head shaving
So I was in basic training land today to help with some medical stuff. I couldn't help but noticed all the shaved heads all over the place and then the females with 20 ft of hair. In an era where we are screaming equal treatment; is this equal?I am also wondering why does a new private have to get his head shaved in the first place? Why not just a haircut within Army Standards?

Have the lines between male and female been erased?  Are they trying to be erased or are we picking and choosing which ones we want to erase? Why does a male soldier have no choice in keeping his hair but a female does? If you love Liberty you will vote below.

ADDED: Could this be considered a form of hazing with the crackdown on hazing since this is obviously not a requirement but more of a tradition? I'm not saying I think it is I'm just asking the question. If it's not required and it doesn't apply to everyone.

*****UPDATED******
Well, well, well what do we have here?
http://www.navytimes.com/story/military/careers/2015/01/08/rtc-boot-camp-haircuts-navy/21439483/
Edited >1 y ago
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SPC David Beam
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I do think their should be some further restriction on females hair standards in basic, if the same is going to be held true for males. Maybe not full on shaved, considering the fact that the normal standard isn't as short as males, but a shorter, uniform cut. I'm not even going to attempt to say how short, but something along those lines. You'd have a hard time arguing unequal treatment then.
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CPT William Jones
CPT William Jones
6 y
The same as is quite different from just cut to 1/2 inch The SAME MEANS JUST ALIKE WITH NO DIFFERENCE.
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SPC Medic
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Taking a look at civilian males, the males who have stable, higher paying jobs are the ones who usually have a better kept, well groomed hair style. With that being said, the lower enlisted (especially the ones who already have that "fuck it" attitude) would develope quite a homely appearance. If males were allowed to grow their hair like females(most, normal females quite enjoy pampering their hair)
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SPC Daniel Alexander
SPC Daniel Alexander
6 y
Not all females take care of their hair. Infact your entire post is downright sexist.
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SPC Medic
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Edited 11 y ago
Not that hair standards should be that big of a deal anyway, but there are many points one could argue
- since when were females ever really treated equally in the military
- males getting their heads shaved creates uniformity/being able to have hair is some kind of right of passage mumbo jumbo
- The number of female recruits would drastically dwindle if they had to shave their heads for 9 weeks. (That would've been a deal breaker for me)
- show me a man who doesn't appreciate a woman with a beautiful head of hair
- Drill sergeant or not, no one wants to stare at bald females. Female's hair is all they get to preen over in basic. You take that away, and morale is certain to nosedive
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SPC Medic
SPC (Join to see)
11 y
Good point. If males shouldn't be focusing on Female's hair, what does their hair length matter?
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SSG Robert Burns
SSG Robert Burns
11 y
I honestly have no idea what these last 2 comments are about.  What in the world are you two talking about?
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SSG Trevor S.
SSG Trevor S.
11 y
Part of the right of passage is to equalize everyone. The same status, clothing, and challenges.
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A1C Jake Wagner
A1C Jake Wagner
7 y
Honestly if having your head shaved would have been a deal breaker on enlisting, maybe you have chosen the wrong career firld. Serving in the armed forces is aboutmore than yourself, if you can set aside your hair during bct/bmt and put service before self, you should probably reevaluate.
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SGT Combat Engineer
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Because (imagine drill sergeant voice as he addresses new recruits): "No one cares where you came from!"

Annihilate whatever baggage in terms of irrelevant, civilian-world status that new inductees have brought with them in their minds. The only thing about them that matters during IET is that they've decided to become Soldiers and they are now learning to be Soldiers. Everything else is nothing. You've kids from all over country, from different backgrounds, with different attitudes, and different personalities, many of whom never would have encountered each other in civilian life. They now have in common that most important thing (Soldiering). Focus them on that.

With regard to females: Hair matters more for females and it takes longer to grow it back to a conventional female hair length. I would keep shaving for males, not for females.
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SMSgt Lawrence McCarter
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Edited 7 y ago
It quite one thing to have a Man with a shaved head, its way beyond unreasonable to expect any female to do that. Standards of training are one thing, the very thought of even thinking of imposing that on any female is totally unjustified in my opinion. That has nothing at all to do with anyone's potential or ability to train for the Military and although there are hair standards for either males or females carry that so far, how many females do You think will allow themselves to be subjected to that unreasonable requirement ? It serves no purpose at all !
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PO1 Jeffrey Pennala
PO1 Jeffrey Pennala
>1 y
SMSgt Lawrence McCarter, SPC Kristen Townsend, SGT David A. 'Cowboy' Groth, SFC(P) Josh Morgan, maybe that was true in the days of iron men and wooden ships or when airplanes were made of wood and fabric. These days are filled with identity politics "toxic masculinity" and "toxic feminism" the hair thing is just another "privilege divider" just make it the same for everybody. Why is it bad for women to have their haircut? Don't you think men would like to have their hair styled too, especially these days? It is a double standard, but it is also an opportunity to bring some cohesiveness to the whole process a shared "equal" experience, not a "when I went to boot camp men had their heads shaved and women had their hair styled". You know because women are privileged and need to be carried and protected through boot camp because without special treatment they wouldn't do it, is that really the sentiment we are communicating with this double standard?
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SMSgt Lawrence McCarter
SMSgt Lawrence McCarter
>1 y
PO1 Jeffrey Pennala - I'm not suggesting they be given lighter training but expecting a woman's head to be shaved isn't and never has been reasonable. Shaved heads is even an acceptable style for men but not for women unless there was a natural problem with baldness. I don't see that as being privileged but as an unreasonable and unjustified expectation. There is nothing toxic about men being men and women being woman and keeping their sexual identity and in all case expected to be held to the same training standards to do the same job. Anything more ( which already takes into account hair regulations including style and length for women in uniform) goes way beyond any double standard.
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PO1 Jeffrey Pennala
PO1 Jeffrey Pennala
>1 y
SMSgt Lawrence McCarter the demand has been made and heard from all the brass hats and congress critters that women will fulfill roles traditionally held by men. Equal is equal, the same standard should apply to all. I would have loved to have my haircut to the "legal standard allowed" by the regs at the time, but it was shaved, not just made uniform legal. That is a double standard, to imply that men don't care how their hair looks is outside of the realm of reality, but women should be able to choose. Why? Because what? They are women is the only reason hence a double standard, so you recognize there are differences!! How to reconcile that men and women are equal doctrine that prevails today, either they are equal in respects in the MOS's/NEC's they fill or are women just more equal than men when filling traditional male billets? Just saying, I think it is a shame we to pretend that there are no differences between the sexes so we can be politically correct. I am all in favor of riding that policy over the cliff it will eventually fall off so we can finally rid ourselves of the make believe SJW mindset out of the society. It is ruining the military, colleges and universities, workplaces, and in all aspects of American life these days. You can't even watch a movie without seeing a 90lb woman beating the crap out of a 250lb professional bodyguard. They ruined Ghostbusters, Star Wars, and hundreds of other movie franchises and TV shows. I am tired of it and am waiting to see it to its final conclusion, we can look back, sigh, and say "what were we thinking".
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SMSgt Lawrence McCarter
SMSgt Lawrence McCarter
5 y
PO1 Jeffrey Pennala - I was in a career field that was all Men, it did open up and women were slowly moved into that field and most of them adapted quite well and were effective and independent in their duty performance. In later years after women had already proved they could do that job they became a permanent part of that career field , Specifically I speak of the Security Police/Security Forces. Making women look like Men to do the same job is in my opinion overstepping any reasonable expectations, its duty performance that concerns Me and along with a proper Military appearance keeping within reasonable standards. There are some people both male and female that aren't suited to that career field but most that work that job do meet or exceed the standards. Doing anything to be politically correct is a major problem and the two sexes do have differences but they don't tend to be motivation, duty performance or patriotism. Training however, for male or females is another related subject, either You meet the standard and do whats expected of You or You don't belong there !
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SGT Thomas Sullivan
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With the lines being erased as far as combat arms is concerned between males and females, I feel that cutting a woman's hair short offers no problems at all and should be done along with everyone else. Not only is it a great equalizer between both sexes, it offers a way of "cleansing away" your old life, bringing about a new one.. symbolically.
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SSG (ret) William Martin
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We want equality but we are keeping some societal norms.
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PO1 Autumn Sandeen
PO1 Autumn Sandeen
>1 y
As a transgender vet, let me say that current regs across all the US uniform services enforce western societal sex and gender norms, and this includes uniform regs on acceptable hair styles and hair length. The libertarian part of my soul asks the question "Should enforcing sex and gender norms should be a function of government?" Other than enforcing societal sex and gender norms, I don't see a reason.
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MSgt Keith Hebert
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In today's world enforce the standard.
Also everyone 18+ should sign up for selective service no exceptions
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SSgt Boyd Herrst
SSgt Boyd Herrst
6 y
At 17 I joined AF Ready Reserve on my B’day. An opportunity came the following year to go Active AF
And I took it.(they needed the AFSC I had. I became Active duty on my 18th B’day. Shortly after the Sqdn Clerk asked if I ever signed for selective service. He had my 201 opened in front of him, why ask a
Stupid question. The answer is in front of him.. So I never answered ... ($&@€£¥%#|\!) I didn’t believe I needed to.. I pulled out my cover and put it on on the way out the door.. I think he figured it out a few days later..
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PO1 William "Chip" Nagel
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SFC David Reid, M.S, PHR, SHRM-CP, DTM
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SGT Wanda Shepherd
SGT Wanda Shepherd
>1 y
That sums it up.
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WO1 Electronic Missile Systems Maintenance Warrant Officer
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5
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This is a silly question.
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TSgt Leslie Anderson
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The head shave is one of the first tangible indicators that the new recruit is no longer an individual, but now part of a team. It is a very effective psychological factor in preparing the recruit for the training and rigors of the military. The women's equivalent is having to adhere to stringent hairstyle regulations. A different but substantial equivalent. Remember seeing a female recruit get royally dressed down for not following the standard set. Made me glad I was a guy at that point with one less thing to worry about.
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SSG Fernando Algarin
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Army = No Gender. Male or female you're a soldier and should be treated as such.
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PFC Aircraft Ordnance Technician
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I have to say Girls shouldn't shave their heads! They need their hair to learn how to put their hair up nice and neat in a matter of time. Unlike guys all we have to do is get a hair cut. My personal opinion of couse!
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SGT Wanda Shepherd
SGT Wanda Shepherd
>1 y
My problem is the men who say women should have their heads shaved because it would be funny. We should be respected no matter the regulation.
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SSG Orthopedics Specialist
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No guy shoulf be so damn upset about a buzz cut justbget over yourself its the Army just suck it the fuck up. For women it demeaning to be shaved bald its not the same for us if you dont like the get out.
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COL Jon Thompson
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As long as there are different standards for men and women, there will always be inequalities. They should all be the same. Let everyone prove themselves.
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SGT Missile Repair Team Member
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3
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I wish we could have had more haircuts. Every other week at Basic in the summer heat was not enough in my opinion. As far as females go; If they want to keep their hair, fine. I couldn't imagine trying to keep it all clean or have to constantly fix my bun or whatever. I really don't think hair has anything to do with fairness or equality (and they are not the same thing) and your hair is your own problem.
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MAJ Robert (Bob) Petrarca
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What's good for one is good for all and good for the service.

Demi Moore, "GI Jane", 'nuff said
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SSG Retired
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If you make one then you should make the other, it's only fair.
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PO1 H Gene Lawrence
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Back in 66 when I went in we were told it was a lice thing. LOL Who woulda thought the Military would lie to us.
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1SG Retired
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It's all about time management. Takes less time to maintain that hair, and takes much less time at the barbershop whe you take 150 people to get either 1 haircut, or 150 individual haircuts.
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LTC Angie Habina
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Females are still required to maintain a feminine like appearance and behavior...that being said, and having commanded in an IN BDE (I’m sure it’s not limited to combat arms BDEs), there are many females who are less than feminine. And “feminine” may be subjective. Our dearly loved 670-1 has recently changed to allow females to have a close cut / shaved style. If that makes you feel more part of the team, then have at it.
Males are also to keep a gentlemanly appearance and behavior. Well...again that’s someone debatable and subjective.
I agree getting your hair shaved in BCT is part of tradition for men, part of cutting the civilian out and rebuilding, and a whole lot more about hygiene. By the time it grows back (2-3 weeks someone said), you’re transitioning phases, you need the little break and rest. I’m sure it’s not restful, but it’s also not a 10-12 mile foot march (Are there still foot marches in BCT? It’s been a while since I’ve been through it.)
Females go through their own mandatory changes in basic training. As someone mentioned, yes, we have our mandatory 5 wellness exams before going to BCT and then annually to every 3 years depending on service branch and health. (Not to take away from turning your head a coughing.)
But forcing a female to shave her head bc it would be funny, as mentioned by another, is not a correct answer. The standards for culture apply even in 670-1....ie only black females can have corn rows and twists, it’s faddish for all other races. Beards are allowed for certain religions during certain periods, ie mourning.
This is not a new question, nor is the question of equal APFT scores. I don’t care who says what about getting and being equal...there are physical and psychological differences between males and females. Thinking otherwise is stupid. That doesn’t mean in behavior (from or towards) or social standing genders should be treated different classes in society or in the military. A better fight / question right now, given our equal rights and ability to serve in combat arms, is “why are females not required to sign up for selective service at 18?”
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LTC Angie Habina
LTC Angie Habina
>1 y
SFC David Pope, MBA
So you understand, while you were retired, the rest of us were rotating in and out of Iraq and Afghanistan and a whole lot of the Army you knew (nearly 20 years ago now) has moved on and changed.
While knowing history is important, unfortunately, you misunderstood the initial comment and your remarks are sexist.
Thank you and have a wonderful day.
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SFC David Pope, MBA
SFC David Pope, MBA
>1 y
LTC Angie Habina - I may be retired, but I am far from being removed from the military. I have a lot of family still serving, and I am still up to date on many things. I still have an AKO account, and have read many of the current NCO Leadership manuals. The only thing I misunderstood was your comment about female officers, but the answer to your initial question about the draft still to this day remains true. The answer may seem sexist, but that is how the law was written, and why. The law was just found to be unjust this February 2019. However it is still the current law on the books, but nobody has changed it since Vietnam. My DBA program is in Organizational Behavior and Leadership. Many things that are regarded as sexist today, were not so in the time the draft was created. Before Vietnam if you were an only son, you could not be drafted to protect he family name!
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CPT William Jones
CPT William Jones
6 y
Congress hasn't seen fit to do their job and pass a law saying do it. They would rather sit around and try to find fault with every other part of the federal government.
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LTC Angie Habina
LTC Angie Habina
6 y
CPT William Jones Well as a citizen, you have right to craft the bill, garner signatures, and submit it to Congress. There’s a whole process and procedure.
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SrA David Heineken
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Any female that wants a combat mos should be assigned and live and train from the beginning with males. This includes boot camp.
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PO1 Jeff Brown
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this tradition has some good reasons for existing. Not the least of which is tearing you down as a civilian, so that you can be ‘built up’ as a sailor, soldier, or marine; unit uniformity, ease of cleanliness. Someone mentioned hazing... sure, I’m ok with hazing that doesn’t cause physical harm. After your hair grows back, you feel like you’ve earned the right. Shave both genders!
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CN Steelworker
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You conform to the military, the military doesn't conform to you. If you don't want your head shaved, tough.
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SSG David Stafne
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It is my understanding that the practice of shaved heads for new Recruits dates back to WWII when the our military had a huge number of Americans joining up. Many of those Recruits were not too keen on basic personal hygiene. With everyone living in crowded open bay barracks, shaving everyone’s head was a way to protect the health and welfare of the unit.

In today’s Army, shaved heads is more in line with the Basic Training concept where a Recruit is stripped of all their “Rights “ and we earn them back as “Privileges,” a concept I agree with. And, in fairness, this should apply to ALL Soldiers, not just the men!
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GySgt Michael Chapman
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I haven't looked at any other responses, so this may have already been said.
Seems to me, shaving the head has a couple of benefits...lice control being one...spotting unknown medical issues is a possibility, but more than anything it's about bringing everyone to the same level. Now, I can't speak for the Army, but in the Marine Corps we still have segregated boot camp. I believe it should stay this way, but that's a different discussion.
If you shave all the boy's heads in boot camp it creates a sense of equality in treatment and respect. They all lose their hair and all look a little silly.
Shaving women's heads seems a bit over the top. A woman, in my opinion, should be treated as such. This isn't a misogynistic point of view, but rather a more conservative one. In some circles, you shame a woman by shaving her head. I do think a shortened hair cut would be in order for all female recruits.
As a side note, suggesting that getting your head shaved in boot, or basic is hazing is just stupid. Put that garbage out of your mind.
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LCpl Douglas Landrith Jr
LCpl Douglas Landrith Jr
8 y
Well said Gunny! I 100% agree with what you said. People need to get over this "everything is fucking hazing bullshit". Semper Fi Gunny
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TSgt Melissa Post
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2
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It was my understanding that shaving a guy's head was one way to break him down. There are some things that you just can't make equal. If guys get to keep their hair, girls should get to keep their makeup and nail polish. Sounds ridiculous and I think there could be bigger things to debate over but that is my take. It isn't an equality thing.
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CPT William Jones
CPT William Jones
5 y
Soldiers are paid to do a job that is different than any civilian job. If haircuts and things of that sort are regulated the rules should be the same. you don't join the 1.5% to look like movie stars models etc, you join to Serve. The more rules that are the same the less paper needed
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SSG Robert Burns
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SFC Processing Nco
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Simply put, TRADOC 350-6 appendix K-4d. All males will get "buzz cut" at reception.
Men and women are different and different accommodations need to be made within reason. Otherwise men will be getting bras and women will have to shave. And what of ear rings? Should men get to wear them?
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CPT William Jones
CPT William Jones
5 y
There hair is no different than males it is the current customs that dictate styles and both males and females in the world wear their the same from long to short. Military regs should reflect that figure out what they want and issue an uniform reg for all military folks.This is one issue that needs no adjustment for male/female differences.
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SGT Team Leader
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It would be a greater equalizer, hmm? Do you want to serve enough to at least, shave your head? Vanity or service to country? My guess is that there would be far fewer females in the ranks. Personally, I looked ridiculous in BCGs and a bun anyway. May as well have just lopped it off. Honestly, would have saved being screamed at when the bun fell during PT.
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SSG Keven Lahde
SSG Keven Lahde
>1 y
SGT (Join to see) I can just picture you with no hair....NOT!! But I do understand what you are saying.
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A1C Aircrew Flight Equipment Apprentice
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2
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Men should be in standards the way women can, or we could all do what the navy does and women get a super short hair cut so that we still have the "hazing" as the men do. I also feel women should not be allowed to dye their hair in basic. You know your date in advance, get back to natural and dye it again after you get through basic.
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SSG Infantryman
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It has been awhile since I was in basic training. The shaving of the head in more out of necessity, you don't have the luxury of getting a hair cut every week to keep a haircut in regs.
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CPT William Jones
CPT William Jones
7 y
Been a real log time since I was in basic (1964)but we got haircuts once a week. And they were pushing more then than now.And too a shaved head is faddish and not allowed under AR 670-1
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SSG Robin Rushlo
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I found that for Infantry basic and AIT shaved head worked very good. If the females want to get in the Combat arms then HEAD shaved otherwise within standards.
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Sgt Arthur Went
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I believe in boot-camp both men and women should have their heads shaved for the reason of hygiene and easier maintenance.All the combat and field training a recruit goes through.
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LCpl Jason Clark
LCpl Jason Clark
11 y
There is also a psychological part to the shaving of recruits heads, uniforms and use of last name only. The similar they are with one another the better the unit cohesiveness, during the breakdown phase this helps with teamwork and loyality development.
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SSG Trevor S.
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As a right of passage it should be universal.
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SPC Infantryman
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Shave em' both bald. Builds character.
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SGT Shon D. Hill
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I'm shocked this topic has spun up such a massive response! I finally bucked up on hazing topic and disagreed due to it's connection with our mission, WAR COMBAT, along with Civilians on here too! Hazing discussion now, I'm a vet now, but it's huge!
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SGT Shon D. Hill
SGT Shon D. Hill
11 y
SSG Roberts this is not to offend you at all, but hear I go Ok! I posted a question 2 days ago about I WANT TO EXPATRIATE THIS COUNTRY TO LIVE IN BELIZE, COSTA RICA OR SOUTH AMERICA AND SOME REASONS WHY! ZERO RESPONSE? I don't want points, I'm asking for dialogue, advice, or thoughts on why I don't belong, can't afford to pay PAIN DR $250 month office visit and $350 Oxycodone prescription cuz VA KILLED PAIN MEDS ON US!
Hair length for Female Soldiers in Basic debate.....? Of course it's obvious I'm referring more to veteran/disabled vet type issues here and thought it would peak some serious interest but hair is on front-page news, lol! I'm sure a few posts will come through on my strange question :).
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SSG V. Michelle Woods
SSG V. Michelle Woods
11 y
SGT Hill

I couldn't find your topic. Are you sure it posted?
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SGT Shon D. Hill
SGT Shon D. Hill
11 y
https://www.rallypoint.com/answers/do-fellow-combat-veterans-want-to-expatriate-to-another-country
Awesome! I think I'm getting proficient with I-phone copy, paste, etc, LOL! Thanks for asking Vickie :) yea the link or copy from My discussion above. I know ppl post so many questions and such, I just noticed that the moderators or same folks always get big discussions, I only want a small one ;). I think it may appear like a "dis functional vet" type question, lol, but I'm hoping it can be something more than that. Would enjoy your thoughts as Active duty and you always keep it real! Shon (first name since off-duty, right?).
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PO1 Jeffrey Pennala
PO1 Jeffrey Pennala
>1 y
SGT Shon D. Hill - Not sure what the original post was regarding becoming an expat or how it relates to boot camp haircuts. I have spent several years living in Central America, and have friends in Panama, Nicaragua, Mexico, Belize, and Costa Rica. My choice would be Costa Rica, they generally like Americans. Life in Central America is more expensive than most would think. We split our time these days between Costa Rica and the US my parents both have health problems and we need to be near to help my siblings with their care. Employment is another problem in Central America unless you start your own company so if you need income plan accordingly. US Dollars usually spend fine (it is one of the official currencies of Costa Rica). My Spanish is bad (Spanglish really) but it adds to the fun and many folks speak English and like to practice their English with native English speakers anyway. We have an apartment we keep in the Central Valley of Costa Rica the people are nice, violent crime is not common it is mostly petty theft and there is a lot of that never put your cell phone down out of reach or sight it will vanish. On the other side I dropped $100 in colonies (Costa Rica's money) at the grocery store and the person in line behind me chased me down to make sure I got it back. They have a love for their families I really enjoy seeing that, it is a Central American Latin country so patience is a requirement, silly rules ad regs are common.
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MSgt Tricare Oerations And Patient Administration Flight Chief
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Since the male standards are stricter, a shaved head will prevent them from having to go to the barber every other week, depending on the rate at which the recruit's hair grows. Females should at least be able to pin/arrange the hair into regulations, but if it cannot then it must be shortened.
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CPT William Jones
CPT William Jones
5 y
Why should there be two sets of rules on hair. Folks that signup now do so because they want to serve for awhile.
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SPC Christopher Smith
2
2
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Hair has nothing to do with gender equality, there is more of a psychological effect in forcing women to shave their hair off, than on men. I do not have proof of this, but I'm sure I could if I cared to do the research. 
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CPT Marc Serrá
2
2
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There should be one standard for a Soldier...male or female...in all things, not just hair.

As to Basic, as a former BCT Cdr, I echo SFC Cardenas in that there simply isn't time to allow for the males getting whatever style they want.

As for female Soldiers in Basic...in my company they were losing half a day of training every three weeks to keep their hair done....sorry but that's a waste of my training time, a waste of their Soldier time, and a definite waste of Drill Sergeant time transporting and baby-sitting them at a hair salon.

After Basic, I don't really care, providing it doesn't look unprofessional and doesn't get in the way of job duties.
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SSG Ron Douglass
SSG Ron Douglass
11 y
Job transfer?
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CPT Marc Serrá
CPT Marc Serrá
11 y
New job. Previous company. Looking forward to it.
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SSG Elyzabeth Cromer
SSG Elyzabeth Cromer
>1 y
My experience was the same as SSG Woods; once we unprocessed females did not get to go anywhere to have anything done to their hair.
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SSG Elyzabeth Cromer
SSG Elyzabeth Cromer
>1 y
That was in processed. (Auto Spellcheck is the bane of my existence.)
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SSG Desk Sergeant
2
2
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I think it is safe to say it is easier if males get their head shaved in BCT. Once their hair gets too long and is out of regs, there is no way to fix it besides getting it cut again. We all remember how busy we were in BCT. It seems to help eliminate them being out of regs more often in my opinion. Females if their hair is getting too long to where it is out of regs, they can put it up. Females can always fix their hair on the spot, a male can't really do that. That's how i see the whole situation anyways.
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SSG Desk Sergeant
SSG (Join to see)
11 y
Once out of BCT soldiers get more free time, which is why usually in AIT males can get what haircut they want. Not sure about other places but that was the case for my company.
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SPC Medic
3
2
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Females aren't going to just give up their femininity. Especially the ones who have worked for months to get their hair just so.
So go ahead and grumble and gripe. Not going to change anything.
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SPC Medic
SPC (Join to see)
11 y
The beginning debate of this running commentary is geared towards females with long hair/why don't they have to shave their heads, too.
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SPC David Beam
SPC David Beam
11 y
I don't even know what to say to that. What army are you in? It doesn't seem like the same one I am a soldier in.  I have so many angry, hateful responses on the tip of my tongue right now... but that would not be professional. Are you familiar with that term?  *sigh* Everything about your post is disgraceful. 
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SSG Robert Burns
SSG Robert Burns
11 y
No the debate is about shaved heads, you made it about long hair.
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LTC Special Operations Response Team (Sort)
LTC (Join to see)
>1 y
Equal rights are always tied to equal responsabilities. One can't have one without the other. If they are not in balance then it is favoritism or punishment. Equal civil rights demand equal rights and equal responsabilities, positive or negative.
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Maj John Bell
1
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The best explanation I've heard is that it is the first military ritual of "I am part of something bigger than myself." I think there is merit in that. But it's hair. It grows back (for most of us).

Until males and females must meet exactly the same standards, the equality between the sexes is a myth.
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MAJ Hugh Blanchard
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The idea of shaving a recruit's head is to break down the cult of the individual and make everyone look and feel the same. Then the training rebuilds the individual with common behaviors and skills that build them into a team. This is not, and never has been, "An Army of One". It's a team.
And yes, I think the shaved head should apply to everyone, men and women.
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1LT Chaplain Candidate
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1
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Good question.
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SFC Jason Rode
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1
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I'm trying to understand why this is even a discussion. Shaved heads? Really? Trivial B.S. My retired opinion.
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SPC Brian Mason
1
1
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Men and women are NOT going to be equal. People vying for that are ignoring human biology and development. I was a Medic during my time in the Army.
There are different standards including PT. Men tend to have more upper body strength and endurance. Women tend to have better lower body/legs strength and endurance. They can tolerate pain better than we can.
I shave my head sometimes but it takes far longer. In BCT when there is over 200 people waiting efficiency is key. A woman who cuts her hair shorter(not a boy cut) before BCT is doing a good thing. We have an image to uphold. The Army doesn't see skin color like so many. There is Army Green. Rank is the definer as well as personal merit. Of course, officers are called "Sir" and "Ma'am" and that's common sense.
The cut along with many other things is part of a transition from civilian to solder. I've been out for some years and don't care if my head is shaved or trimmed. A woman's hair tends to be a defining characteristic. In our Class A's you can easily see the difference in a male and female soldier.
In conclusion, should shaving heads be required for everyone? Yes. Those of you who know how BCT is and with so little downtime, females must have their hair up unless they are showering or sleeping. Shaving removes almost all of the hair and allows for a new, healthy growth of head hair and greatly reduces the chance for lice. It's uncommon to see a woman with a shaved head like that unless they are of a particular stereotype.
BCT runs roughly just over 2 months. Hair grows roughly 1/2" a month on average. Trimming a female's hair in BCT would take much longer. I would have the female show up for an inspection a few days before going to MEPS.
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MSgt Joseph Holness
MSgt Joseph Holness
5 y
"Men and women are NOT going to be equal. People vying for that are ignoring human biology and development. "...….THANK YOU! BEST POST of the Century!
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SFC Regina Boyd
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I came on active duty in September of 1978, right when the Army officially phased out the WAC (Women's Army Corps). I went through the first co-ed basic training at Fort Jackson, SC, Co A, 4th Battalion, 1st Infantry (A-4-1) and remember Tank Hill "fondly"...about fifty recruits in our company were from Puerto Rico and did not speak English and the MAJOR concern was would they make it to the end (one did not, because of violence issues [female, not male]) and through BRM (Basic Rifle Marksmanship). I had already cut my hair before basic because it was going to be a hassle having to deal with doing what you have to do with long hair to be compliant with Army regulation and because THERE WAS NO TIME!! I can look back on all that with a smile on my face, but at the time, there were no smiles!! The military already shows equality in pay - everyone can see who makes what at each pay grade by number of years. In civilian life, good luck. What your co-worker makes in wages is a virtual trade secret. Speaking from "experience," men and women are two physically different creatures. Yes, some women can push the limits of physical strengths as some men - but not all. It's also not the physical part that's important, but also the mental. Mental toughness is the true test. Working with what you have to do what you've go to do to accomplish the mission is the utmost. Basic training was designed to "weed out" those that can't make "the cut." (Pun intended.) In the grand scheme of things in the universe, does it really matter if a woman shaves her head bald? Can she deal with it? Probably. Some won't, but they won't be in the military. Will there ever be "equality" between men and women? Probably. Probably not. It's not a race. It's not a competition. I could care less that you can run 2 miles in under 8 minutes or that you can bench press 300 pounds. That's not the true test. The true test is with your mind.
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CPT William Jones
CPT William Jones
5 y
I was riding with you until the last couple of lines. That physical stuff is important is several MOS that are now available Infantry can you haul a very heavy pack several days and while doing so drag a wounded buddy to safety, or Arty load a larger number id rounds and load them, same with tanks as a loader. etc
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SFC David Reid, M.S, PHR, SHRM-CP, DTM
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This is just how it is !
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SSG William Wall
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5c868ab4
In closing... NASA says this alignment occurs only once every 500 years.
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