Posted on Apr 12, 2014
Shaved heads in basic training; is this mandatory? If it is, then why and why only for males?
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So I was in basic training land today to help with some medical stuff. I couldn't help but noticed all the shaved heads all over the place and then the females with 20 ft of hair. In an era where we are screaming equal treatment; is this equal?I am also wondering why does a new private have to get his head shaved in the first place? Why not just a haircut within Army Standards?
Have the lines between male and female been erased? Are they trying to be erased or are we picking and choosing which ones we want to erase? Why does a male soldier have no choice in keeping his hair but a female does? If you love Liberty you will vote below.
ADDED: Could this be considered a form of hazing with the crackdown on hazing since this is obviously not a requirement but more of a tradition? I'm not saying I think it is I'm just asking the question. If it's not required and it doesn't apply to everyone.
*****UPDATED******
Well, well, well what do we have here?
http://www.navytimes.com/story/military/careers/2015/01/08/rtc-boot-camp-haircuts-navy/21439483/
Have the lines between male and female been erased? Are they trying to be erased or are we picking and choosing which ones we want to erase? Why does a male soldier have no choice in keeping his hair but a female does? If you love Liberty you will vote below.
ADDED: Could this be considered a form of hazing with the crackdown on hazing since this is obviously not a requirement but more of a tradition? I'm not saying I think it is I'm just asking the question. If it's not required and it doesn't apply to everyone.
*****UPDATED******
Well, well, well what do we have here?
http://www.navytimes.com/story/military/careers/2015/01/08/rtc-boot-camp-haircuts-navy/21439483/
Edited >1 y ago
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 458
I do think their should be some further restriction on females hair standards in basic, if the same is going to be held true for males. Maybe not full on shaved, considering the fact that the normal standard isn't as short as males, but a shorter, uniform cut. I'm not even going to attempt to say how short, but something along those lines. You'd have a hard time arguing unequal treatment then.
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CPT William Jones
The same as is quite different from just cut to 1/2 inch The SAME MEANS JUST ALIKE WITH NO DIFFERENCE.
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Taking a look at civilian males, the males who have stable, higher paying jobs are the ones who usually have a better kept, well groomed hair style. With that being said, the lower enlisted (especially the ones who already have that "fuck it" attitude) would develope quite a homely appearance. If males were allowed to grow their hair like females(most, normal females quite enjoy pampering their hair)
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SPC Daniel Alexander
Not all females take care of their hair. Infact your entire post is downright sexist.
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Not that hair standards should be that big of a deal anyway, but there are many points one could argue
- since when were females ever really treated equally in the military
- males getting their heads shaved creates uniformity/being able to have hair is some kind of right of passage mumbo jumbo
- The number of female recruits would drastically dwindle if they had to shave their heads for 9 weeks. (That would've been a deal breaker for me)
- show me a man who doesn't appreciate a woman with a beautiful head of hair
- Drill sergeant or not, no one wants to stare at bald females. Female's hair is all they get to preen over in basic. You take that away, and morale is certain to nosedive
- since when were females ever really treated equally in the military
- males getting their heads shaved creates uniformity/being able to have hair is some kind of right of passage mumbo jumbo
- The number of female recruits would drastically dwindle if they had to shave their heads for 9 weeks. (That would've been a deal breaker for me)
- show me a man who doesn't appreciate a woman with a beautiful head of hair
- Drill sergeant or not, no one wants to stare at bald females. Female's hair is all they get to preen over in basic. You take that away, and morale is certain to nosedive
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SPC (Join to see)
Good point. If males shouldn't be focusing on Female's hair, what does their hair length matter?
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SSG Robert Burns
I honestly have no idea what these last 2 comments are about. What in the world are you two talking about?
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A1C Jake Wagner
Honestly if having your head shaved would have been a deal breaker on enlisting, maybe you have chosen the wrong career firld. Serving in the armed forces is aboutmore than yourself, if you can set aside your hair during bct/bmt and put service before self, you should probably reevaluate.
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Because (imagine drill sergeant voice as he addresses new recruits): "No one cares where you came from!"
Annihilate whatever baggage in terms of irrelevant, civilian-world status that new inductees have brought with them in their minds. The only thing about them that matters during IET is that they've decided to become Soldiers and they are now learning to be Soldiers. Everything else is nothing. You've kids from all over country, from different backgrounds, with different attitudes, and different personalities, many of whom never would have encountered each other in civilian life. They now have in common that most important thing (Soldiering). Focus them on that.
With regard to females: Hair matters more for females and it takes longer to grow it back to a conventional female hair length. I would keep shaving for males, not for females.
Annihilate whatever baggage in terms of irrelevant, civilian-world status that new inductees have brought with them in their minds. The only thing about them that matters during IET is that they've decided to become Soldiers and they are now learning to be Soldiers. Everything else is nothing. You've kids from all over country, from different backgrounds, with different attitudes, and different personalities, many of whom never would have encountered each other in civilian life. They now have in common that most important thing (Soldiering). Focus them on that.
With regard to females: Hair matters more for females and it takes longer to grow it back to a conventional female hair length. I would keep shaving for males, not for females.
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It quite one thing to have a Man with a shaved head, its way beyond unreasonable to expect any female to do that. Standards of training are one thing, the very thought of even thinking of imposing that on any female is totally unjustified in my opinion. That has nothing at all to do with anyone's potential or ability to train for the Military and although there are hair standards for either males or females carry that so far, how many females do You think will allow themselves to be subjected to that unreasonable requirement ? It serves no purpose at all !
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PO1 Jeffrey Pennala
SMSgt Lawrence McCarter, SPC Kristen Townsend, SGT David A. 'Cowboy' Groth, SFC(P) Josh Morgan, maybe that was true in the days of iron men and wooden ships or when airplanes were made of wood and fabric. These days are filled with identity politics "toxic masculinity" and "toxic feminism" the hair thing is just another "privilege divider" just make it the same for everybody. Why is it bad for women to have their haircut? Don't you think men would like to have their hair styled too, especially these days? It is a double standard, but it is also an opportunity to bring some cohesiveness to the whole process a shared "equal" experience, not a "when I went to boot camp men had their heads shaved and women had their hair styled". You know because women are privileged and need to be carried and protected through boot camp because without special treatment they wouldn't do it, is that really the sentiment we are communicating with this double standard?
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SMSgt Lawrence McCarter
PO1 Jeffrey Pennala - I'm not suggesting they be given lighter training but expecting a woman's head to be shaved isn't and never has been reasonable. Shaved heads is even an acceptable style for men but not for women unless there was a natural problem with baldness. I don't see that as being privileged but as an unreasonable and unjustified expectation. There is nothing toxic about men being men and women being woman and keeping their sexual identity and in all case expected to be held to the same training standards to do the same job. Anything more ( which already takes into account hair regulations including style and length for women in uniform) goes way beyond any double standard.
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PO1 Jeffrey Pennala
SMSgt Lawrence McCarter the demand has been made and heard from all the brass hats and congress critters that women will fulfill roles traditionally held by men. Equal is equal, the same standard should apply to all. I would have loved to have my haircut to the "legal standard allowed" by the regs at the time, but it was shaved, not just made uniform legal. That is a double standard, to imply that men don't care how their hair looks is outside of the realm of reality, but women should be able to choose. Why? Because what? They are women is the only reason hence a double standard, so you recognize there are differences!! How to reconcile that men and women are equal doctrine that prevails today, either they are equal in respects in the MOS's/NEC's they fill or are women just more equal than men when filling traditional male billets? Just saying, I think it is a shame we to pretend that there are no differences between the sexes so we can be politically correct. I am all in favor of riding that policy over the cliff it will eventually fall off so we can finally rid ourselves of the make believe SJW mindset out of the society. It is ruining the military, colleges and universities, workplaces, and in all aspects of American life these days. You can't even watch a movie without seeing a 90lb woman beating the crap out of a 250lb professional bodyguard. They ruined Ghostbusters, Star Wars, and hundreds of other movie franchises and TV shows. I am tired of it and am waiting to see it to its final conclusion, we can look back, sigh, and say "what were we thinking".
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SMSgt Lawrence McCarter
PO1 Jeffrey Pennala - I was in a career field that was all Men, it did open up and women were slowly moved into that field and most of them adapted quite well and were effective and independent in their duty performance. In later years after women had already proved they could do that job they became a permanent part of that career field , Specifically I speak of the Security Police/Security Forces. Making women look like Men to do the same job is in my opinion overstepping any reasonable expectations, its duty performance that concerns Me and along with a proper Military appearance keeping within reasonable standards. There are some people both male and female that aren't suited to that career field but most that work that job do meet or exceed the standards. Doing anything to be politically correct is a major problem and the two sexes do have differences but they don't tend to be motivation, duty performance or patriotism. Training however, for male or females is another related subject, either You meet the standard and do whats expected of You or You don't belong there !
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With the lines being erased as far as combat arms is concerned between males and females, I feel that cutting a woman's hair short offers no problems at all and should be done along with everyone else. Not only is it a great equalizer between both sexes, it offers a way of "cleansing away" your old life, bringing about a new one.. symbolically.
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PO1 Autumn Sandeen
As a transgender vet, let me say that current regs across all the US uniform services enforce western societal sex and gender norms, and this includes uniform regs on acceptable hair styles and hair length. The libertarian part of my soul asks the question "Should enforcing sex and gender norms should be a function of government?" Other than enforcing societal sex and gender norms, I don't see a reason.
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In today's world enforce the standard.
Also everyone 18+ should sign up for selective service no exceptions
Also everyone 18+ should sign up for selective service no exceptions
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SSgt Boyd Herrst
At 17 I joined AF Ready Reserve on my B’day. An opportunity came the following year to go Active AF
And I took it.(they needed the AFSC I had. I became Active duty on my 18th B’day. Shortly after the Sqdn Clerk asked if I ever signed for selective service. He had my 201 opened in front of him, why ask a
Stupid question. The answer is in front of him.. So I never answered ... ($&@€£¥%#|\!) I didn’t believe I needed to.. I pulled out my cover and put it on on the way out the door.. I think he figured it out a few days later..
And I took it.(they needed the AFSC I had. I became Active duty on my 18th B’day. Shortly after the Sqdn Clerk asked if I ever signed for selective service. He had my 201 opened in front of him, why ask a
Stupid question. The answer is in front of him.. So I never answered ... ($&@€£¥%#|\!) I didn’t believe I needed to.. I pulled out my cover and put it on on the way out the door.. I think he figured it out a few days later..
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The head shave is one of the first tangible indicators that the new recruit is no longer an individual, but now part of a team. It is a very effective psychological factor in preparing the recruit for the training and rigors of the military. The women's equivalent is having to adhere to stringent hairstyle regulations. A different but substantial equivalent. Remember seeing a female recruit get royally dressed down for not following the standard set. Made me glad I was a guy at that point with one less thing to worry about.
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Army = No Gender. Male or female you're a soldier and should be treated as such.
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I have to say Girls shouldn't shave their heads! They need their hair to learn how to put their hair up nice and neat in a matter of time. Unlike guys all we have to do is get a hair cut. My personal opinion of couse!
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SGT Wanda Shepherd
My problem is the men who say women should have their heads shaved because it would be funny. We should be respected no matter the regulation.
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No guy shoulf be so damn upset about a buzz cut justbget over yourself its the Army just suck it the fuck up. For women it demeaning to be shaved bald its not the same for us if you dont like the get out.
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As long as there are different standards for men and women, there will always be inequalities. They should all be the same. Let everyone prove themselves.
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I wish we could have had more haircuts. Every other week at Basic in the summer heat was not enough in my opinion. As far as females go; If they want to keep their hair, fine. I couldn't imagine trying to keep it all clean or have to constantly fix my bun or whatever. I really don't think hair has anything to do with fairness or equality (and they are not the same thing) and your hair is your own problem.
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What's good for one is good for all and good for the service.
Demi Moore, "GI Jane", 'nuff said
Demi Moore, "GI Jane", 'nuff said
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Back in 66 when I went in we were told it was a lice thing. LOL Who woulda thought the Military would lie to us.
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It's all about time management. Takes less time to maintain that hair, and takes much less time at the barbershop whe you take 150 people to get either 1 haircut, or 150 individual haircuts.
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Females are still required to maintain a feminine like appearance and behavior...that being said, and having commanded in an IN BDE (I’m sure it’s not limited to combat arms BDEs), there are many females who are less than feminine. And “feminine” may be subjective. Our dearly loved 670-1 has recently changed to allow females to have a close cut / shaved style. If that makes you feel more part of the team, then have at it.
Males are also to keep a gentlemanly appearance and behavior. Well...again that’s someone debatable and subjective.
I agree getting your hair shaved in BCT is part of tradition for men, part of cutting the civilian out and rebuilding, and a whole lot more about hygiene. By the time it grows back (2-3 weeks someone said), you’re transitioning phases, you need the little break and rest. I’m sure it’s not restful, but it’s also not a 10-12 mile foot march (Are there still foot marches in BCT? It’s been a while since I’ve been through it.)
Females go through their own mandatory changes in basic training. As someone mentioned, yes, we have our mandatory 5 wellness exams before going to BCT and then annually to every 3 years depending on service branch and health. (Not to take away from turning your head a coughing.)
But forcing a female to shave her head bc it would be funny, as mentioned by another, is not a correct answer. The standards for culture apply even in 670-1....ie only black females can have corn rows and twists, it’s faddish for all other races. Beards are allowed for certain religions during certain periods, ie mourning.
This is not a new question, nor is the question of equal APFT scores. I don’t care who says what about getting and being equal...there are physical and psychological differences between males and females. Thinking otherwise is stupid. That doesn’t mean in behavior (from or towards) or social standing genders should be treated different classes in society or in the military. A better fight / question right now, given our equal rights and ability to serve in combat arms, is “why are females not required to sign up for selective service at 18?”
Males are also to keep a gentlemanly appearance and behavior. Well...again that’s someone debatable and subjective.
I agree getting your hair shaved in BCT is part of tradition for men, part of cutting the civilian out and rebuilding, and a whole lot more about hygiene. By the time it grows back (2-3 weeks someone said), you’re transitioning phases, you need the little break and rest. I’m sure it’s not restful, but it’s also not a 10-12 mile foot march (Are there still foot marches in BCT? It’s been a while since I’ve been through it.)
Females go through their own mandatory changes in basic training. As someone mentioned, yes, we have our mandatory 5 wellness exams before going to BCT and then annually to every 3 years depending on service branch and health. (Not to take away from turning your head a coughing.)
But forcing a female to shave her head bc it would be funny, as mentioned by another, is not a correct answer. The standards for culture apply even in 670-1....ie only black females can have corn rows and twists, it’s faddish for all other races. Beards are allowed for certain religions during certain periods, ie mourning.
This is not a new question, nor is the question of equal APFT scores. I don’t care who says what about getting and being equal...there are physical and psychological differences between males and females. Thinking otherwise is stupid. That doesn’t mean in behavior (from or towards) or social standing genders should be treated different classes in society or in the military. A better fight / question right now, given our equal rights and ability to serve in combat arms, is “why are females not required to sign up for selective service at 18?”
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LTC Angie Habina
SFC David Pope, MBA
So you understand, while you were retired, the rest of us were rotating in and out of Iraq and Afghanistan and a whole lot of the Army you knew (nearly 20 years ago now) has moved on and changed.
While knowing history is important, unfortunately, you misunderstood the initial comment and your remarks are sexist.
Thank you and have a wonderful day.
So you understand, while you were retired, the rest of us were rotating in and out of Iraq and Afghanistan and a whole lot of the Army you knew (nearly 20 years ago now) has moved on and changed.
While knowing history is important, unfortunately, you misunderstood the initial comment and your remarks are sexist.
Thank you and have a wonderful day.
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SFC David Pope, MBA
LTC Angie Habina - I may be retired, but I am far from being removed from the military. I have a lot of family still serving, and I am still up to date on many things. I still have an AKO account, and have read many of the current NCO Leadership manuals. The only thing I misunderstood was your comment about female officers, but the answer to your initial question about the draft still to this day remains true. The answer may seem sexist, but that is how the law was written, and why. The law was just found to be unjust this February 2019. However it is still the current law on the books, but nobody has changed it since Vietnam. My DBA program is in Organizational Behavior and Leadership. Many things that are regarded as sexist today, were not so in the time the draft was created. Before Vietnam if you were an only son, you could not be drafted to protect he family name!
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CPT William Jones
Congress hasn't seen fit to do their job and pass a law saying do it. They would rather sit around and try to find fault with every other part of the federal government.
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LTC Angie Habina
CPT William Jones Well as a citizen, you have right to craft the bill, garner signatures, and submit it to Congress. There’s a whole process and procedure.
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Any female that wants a combat mos should be assigned and live and train from the beginning with males. This includes boot camp.
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this tradition has some good reasons for existing. Not the least of which is tearing you down as a civilian, so that you can be ‘built up’ as a sailor, soldier, or marine; unit uniformity, ease of cleanliness. Someone mentioned hazing... sure, I’m ok with hazing that doesn’t cause physical harm. After your hair grows back, you feel like you’ve earned the right. Shave both genders!
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You conform to the military, the military doesn't conform to you. If you don't want your head shaved, tough.
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It is my understanding that the practice of shaved heads for new Recruits dates back to WWII when the our military had a huge number of Americans joining up. Many of those Recruits were not too keen on basic personal hygiene. With everyone living in crowded open bay barracks, shaving everyone’s head was a way to protect the health and welfare of the unit.
In today’s Army, shaved heads is more in line with the Basic Training concept where a Recruit is stripped of all their “Rights “ and we earn them back as “Privileges,” a concept I agree with. And, in fairness, this should apply to ALL Soldiers, not just the men!
In today’s Army, shaved heads is more in line with the Basic Training concept where a Recruit is stripped of all their “Rights “ and we earn them back as “Privileges,” a concept I agree with. And, in fairness, this should apply to ALL Soldiers, not just the men!
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I haven't looked at any other responses, so this may have already been said.
Seems to me, shaving the head has a couple of benefits...lice control being one...spotting unknown medical issues is a possibility, but more than anything it's about bringing everyone to the same level. Now, I can't speak for the Army, but in the Marine Corps we still have segregated boot camp. I believe it should stay this way, but that's a different discussion.
If you shave all the boy's heads in boot camp it creates a sense of equality in treatment and respect. They all lose their hair and all look a little silly.
Shaving women's heads seems a bit over the top. A woman, in my opinion, should be treated as such. This isn't a misogynistic point of view, but rather a more conservative one. In some circles, you shame a woman by shaving her head. I do think a shortened hair cut would be in order for all female recruits.
As a side note, suggesting that getting your head shaved in boot, or basic is hazing is just stupid. Put that garbage out of your mind.
Seems to me, shaving the head has a couple of benefits...lice control being one...spotting unknown medical issues is a possibility, but more than anything it's about bringing everyone to the same level. Now, I can't speak for the Army, but in the Marine Corps we still have segregated boot camp. I believe it should stay this way, but that's a different discussion.
If you shave all the boy's heads in boot camp it creates a sense of equality in treatment and respect. They all lose their hair and all look a little silly.
Shaving women's heads seems a bit over the top. A woman, in my opinion, should be treated as such. This isn't a misogynistic point of view, but rather a more conservative one. In some circles, you shame a woman by shaving her head. I do think a shortened hair cut would be in order for all female recruits.
As a side note, suggesting that getting your head shaved in boot, or basic is hazing is just stupid. Put that garbage out of your mind.
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LCpl Douglas Landrith Jr
Well said Gunny! I 100% agree with what you said. People need to get over this "everything is fucking hazing bullshit". Semper Fi Gunny
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It was my understanding that shaving a guy's head was one way to break him down. There are some things that you just can't make equal. If guys get to keep their hair, girls should get to keep their makeup and nail polish. Sounds ridiculous and I think there could be bigger things to debate over but that is my take. It isn't an equality thing.
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CPT William Jones
Soldiers are paid to do a job that is different than any civilian job. If haircuts and things of that sort are regulated the rules should be the same. you don't join the 1.5% to look like movie stars models etc, you join to Serve. The more rules that are the same the less paper needed
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Someone out there us reading my posts.
http://www.navytimes.com/story/military/careers/2015/01/08/rtc-boot-camp-haircuts-navy/21439483/
http://www.navytimes.com/story/military/careers/2015/01/08/rtc-boot-camp-haircuts-navy/21439483/

Navy boot camp mulls no longer shaving recruits' heads
Women taking part in a three-month pilot program at boot camp will not be required to get their hair cut. A similar move is being considered for men.
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Simply put, TRADOC 350-6 appendix K-4d. All males will get "buzz cut" at reception.
Men and women are different and different accommodations need to be made within reason. Otherwise men will be getting bras and women will have to shave. And what of ear rings? Should men get to wear them?
Men and women are different and different accommodations need to be made within reason. Otherwise men will be getting bras and women will have to shave. And what of ear rings? Should men get to wear them?
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CPT William Jones
There hair is no different than males it is the current customs that dictate styles and both males and females in the world wear their the same from long to short. Military regs should reflect that figure out what they want and issue an uniform reg for all military folks.This is one issue that needs no adjustment for male/female differences.
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It would be a greater equalizer, hmm? Do you want to serve enough to at least, shave your head? Vanity or service to country? My guess is that there would be far fewer females in the ranks. Personally, I looked ridiculous in BCGs and a bun anyway. May as well have just lopped it off. Honestly, would have saved being screamed at when the bun fell during PT.
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SSG Keven Lahde
SGT (Join to see) I can just picture you with no hair....NOT!! But I do understand what you are saying.
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