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I have been dealing with this a lot. I have seen both ways. As per AR 600–25 the junior person should salute. I see a 1LT senior to a 2LT and I salute them. I have seen many instances where this does not happen. Most see a LT as a LT regardless of being a 1st or 2nd. How do you all feel about this?
"B. All Army personnel in uniform are required to salute when they meet and recognize persons entitled to the salute. Salutes will be exchanged between officers (commissioned and warrant) and enlisted personnel, and with personnel of the Armed Forces of the United States..."
"B. All Army personnel in uniform are required to salute when they meet and recognize persons entitled to the salute. Salutes will be exchanged between officers (commissioned and warrant) and enlisted personnel, and with personnel of the Armed Forces of the United States..."
Officers
Customs and Courtesies
Army
Saluting
AR 600-25
Edited 11 y ago
Posted 12 y ago
Responses: 1296
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My attitude was that at some point the 1Lt would be a Captain and I would still be a Lt and that point there would be the distinct difference that the other guy is no longer the peer in the "LT mafia." I just always assumed I would rather be told not to when I did it versus getting the riot act if I failed to not salute the one 1Lt that would take exception to the "no rank among LT's ," rule.
On the other hand I never expected to be saluted by a 2nd when I was a 1st.
On the other hand I never expected to be saluted by a 2nd when I was a 1st.
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Ok, I finally have the difinitive answer. They should do a flying chest bump and initiate some kind of specialty "LT only" handshake like the frat boys have. Ofcourse the handshake will have to be branch specific and must NEVER be shown to rival LT's of other branches. Any LT caught sharing the handshake will be demoted and severely beaten.
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Sgt Packy Flickinger
They'd have to determine the demotion within their own club. Maybe back to remedial academy classes.
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CPT (Join to see)
I make sure to come back here and try to keep it going. My goal is to get this in the trending column.
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Bottom line here is that if one soldier outranks the other, they are NOT peers. If an officer outranks another officer of whatever rank, the salute is required.
Yes, Lieutenants not saluting each other is an unwritten custom of the service, but arguing that the regulation supports it because you as a commander need your lieutenants to work as peers is just spinning your own version of the reg. The reg is clear.
Either you outrank someone, you have the same rank, or they outrank you.
I'm not getting into the issue of date of rank because we don't wear date of rank on our uniforms, and there's not a good way to tell anyway.
On top of that, the idea that you need your lieutenants to work together as peers as a more senior commander is undercut by allowing lieutenants who don't even work together to subscribe to this custom. If 2LT Walker (*shudder*) is TDY from Fort Belvoir to Fort Bragg, and runs into 1LT Ballinger outside the PX during lunch (going to the food court) when they don't know each other already...how is the unwritten custom facilitating them working together as peers? Where's the mentorship?? What if 1LT Ballinger is ADA and 2LT Walker is Signal? When would they be working together? It doesn't even make sense.
You just need to be intellectually honest and admit that this is one unwritten custom of the service that goes against regulations, but it's kept on because of tradition....I would say sort of like Warrant Officers not saluting each other, but I'm currently at my WOAC at Ft. Gordon GA, and they've impressed upon us that we *will* salute more senior Warrants, and we *will* accept and return salutes from the WO1s here for WOBC. So basically TRADOC is getting rid of that tradition already.
Yes, Lieutenants not saluting each other is an unwritten custom of the service, but arguing that the regulation supports it because you as a commander need your lieutenants to work as peers is just spinning your own version of the reg. The reg is clear.
Either you outrank someone, you have the same rank, or they outrank you.
I'm not getting into the issue of date of rank because we don't wear date of rank on our uniforms, and there's not a good way to tell anyway.
On top of that, the idea that you need your lieutenants to work together as peers as a more senior commander is undercut by allowing lieutenants who don't even work together to subscribe to this custom. If 2LT Walker (*shudder*) is TDY from Fort Belvoir to Fort Bragg, and runs into 1LT Ballinger outside the PX during lunch (going to the food court) when they don't know each other already...how is the unwritten custom facilitating them working together as peers? Where's the mentorship?? What if 1LT Ballinger is ADA and 2LT Walker is Signal? When would they be working together? It doesn't even make sense.
You just need to be intellectually honest and admit that this is one unwritten custom of the service that goes against regulations, but it's kept on because of tradition....I would say sort of like Warrant Officers not saluting each other, but I'm currently at my WOAC at Ft. Gordon GA, and they've impressed upon us that we *will* salute more senior Warrants, and we *will* accept and return salutes from the WO1s here for WOBC. So basically TRADOC is getting rid of that tradition already.
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SFC Robin Gates
Damn that was really HEAVY!!! LOL, got to keep a sense of humor about it..My whole military career. I never seen LT's salute one another unless, a 1st LT was in a Command Position. Same went for Warrant's.
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Should (opinion) a second lieutenant salute a first lieutenant? No
Must (regulation) a second lieutenant salute a first lieutenant? Yes
Must (regulation) a second lieutenant salute a first lieutenant? Yes
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Regardless of branch of service, it is in the UCMJ and branch specific reg that junior ranking officers salute the superior officer. It is utterly disrespectful not to. Maybe the military should change the title of 2LT like the Navy. Call them Left-tenants or Ensigns or something that sound less commanding. Human nature, people see the number 2 as being the bigger number so why not. Maybe even change the structure or look of the 2LT bar. Give the 1LT bar a make over. The 2LTs need to calm down and try not to strut their stuff, everyone in the US Military knows that a 2LT is lower than a 1LT and is respected accordingly. Just the E-7s realize as the CPTs that the 2LT is new and may not know as much.
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Since I'm one of the few that hasn't posted on this topic yet, I figure it's time to get in line with the group (sorry for keeping the thread alive SFC Wayman)
I always understood it to be "rank among lieutenants is like virtue among ....."
I always understood it to be "rank among lieutenants is like virtue among ....."
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Holy Cow! This thread is still in existence or did it get re-created? OMG....somebody shoot this thread please...enough is enough......
WILL SOMEONE IN THE ADMIN CIRCLE JUST SHUT THIS THREAD DOWN?
WILL SOMEONE IN THE ADMIN CIRCLE JUST SHUT THIS THREAD DOWN?
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PO1 (Join to see)
No more ridiculous or stupid than this thread. Anyone with half a brain would simply either read the reg or find out what the local command wants. This assinine thread is doing nothing but pullin up points for someone and luring fools into a conversation that just doesn't need to be had. At what point does this stuped thread just become redundant - 10 pages of the same coments....or 50 pages of the same BS....CLOSE THIS THREAD
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SFC Walter Mack
George, I gave you all the points I could, just so you can keep up with the owner of the thread. Dittos!
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SSgt Kevin Hopkins
whats ridiculous and stupid is someone that whines and bitches when they can choose to opt out of the discussion, just goes to show the annoying mentality of some people
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SSgt Kevin Hopkins
I'm willing to play along. You want to milk this useless, redundant, asinine, stupid NON discussion - go ahead. I'll be right there letting everyone and anyone know this is a stupid, asinine , redundant conversation. A conversation in which nothing new is being discussed, no new information is being provided and you're just trying to milk this cow as long as you can and do nothing to earn those points.......
So stop whining about my pointing out how stupid your thread is.........
I'm willing to play along. You want to milk this useless, redundant, asinine, stupid NON discussion - go ahead. I'll be right there letting everyone and anyone know this is a stupid, asinine , redundant conversation. A conversation in which nothing new is being discussed, no new information is being provided and you're just trying to milk this cow as long as you can and do nothing to earn those points.......
So stop whining about my pointing out how stupid your thread is.........
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OMG NOT AGAIN!! Seriously MSG? Ok lets see how long we can stretch this one out.
LT Rosa should hop in a DeLorean, set the WABAC flux capacitor to his commissioning date, hit warp speed and go back in time to meet his younger, 2LT self and impart him with the wisdom to not post the initial RP question.
Seriously though, LT, we have all enjoyed this question so much apparently well enough to spawn a sequel
LT Rosa should hop in a DeLorean, set the WABAC flux capacitor to his commissioning date, hit warp speed and go back in time to meet his younger, 2LT self and impart him with the wisdom to not post the initial RP question.
Seriously though, LT, we have all enjoyed this question so much apparently well enough to spawn a sequel
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What kills me is that I only asked a question. I have no intent on it becoming the viral questions it has become. I didn't think it would have been a pandora's box.
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