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I have been dealing with this a lot. I have seen both ways. As per AR 600–25 the junior person should salute. I see a 1LT senior to a 2LT and I salute them. I have seen many instances where this does not happen. Most see a LT as a LT regardless of being a 1st or 2nd. How do you all feel about this?
"B. All Army personnel in uniform are required to salute when they meet and recognize persons entitled to the salute. Salutes will be exchanged between officers (commissioned and warrant) and enlisted personnel, and with personnel of the Armed Forces of the United States..."
"B. All Army personnel in uniform are required to salute when they meet and recognize persons entitled to the salute. Salutes will be exchanged between officers (commissioned and warrant) and enlisted personnel, and with personnel of the Armed Forces of the United States..."
Officers
Customs and Courtesies
Army
Saluting
AR 600-25
Edited 11 y ago
Posted 12 y ago
Responses: 1296
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I don't know what army some of you people are in, but I have been in for about 7 years at this point; I've been to Ft. Jackson, Ft. Lewis, Ft. Sill, Ft. Benning, Ft. Bragg, and Ft. Polk and I have literally NEVER seen a 2LT salute a first 1LT.
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The pay-grade hierarchy should be respected by all military members. Officers should salute any other senior officers regardless of the difference in rank. Salutes are a time-honored tradition that shows respect between the members engaged in this action. An O-1 should follow military protocol and salute the O-2. Remember that all officers set the standards for the enlisted and warrant officers under their command.
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CPT (Join to see)
The Army views LTs as being experienced and fools at times. I think that some LTs also believe and play the role.
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If I were doing a joint operation as a second lieutenant with a first lieutenant from a foreign service (pick anyone...South Korea, Israel, Japan, Germany), I would salute. That said, salute. Yeah, you may be called a "tool," but it only will be for 18 to 24 months. O-1s are at the bottom of the totem pole, deal with it. Privately if you don't want to call your friend, who is an O-2, sir or ma'am, don't. It's a silly game at times.
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With the exception of close order drill or duty, I don't receive a salute but I will damn sure receive a proper greeting from any men of lesser grade. If I was a commisioned officer, that proper greeting would be in conjunction with a salute. It's tradition, it's the standard, it's respectful, it shows recognition, and it needs to be enforced!
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CPT (Join to see)
That is the truth. When I was enlisted I always greeted NCOs. It is what you are supposed to do. I wish the Army would follow the Marines when it comes to customs and courtesies.
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SSG Kevin McCulley
Actually sir, Army custom requires it as well. We just don't enforce it because when we do we get told by officers to lighten up. No offense of course. Army custom is not much different than the USMC's. We just tend to ignore it
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GySgt William Hardy
SSgt Fair, when I served in the Corps, I worked my way up to Gunny before leaving to attend college full time. In that 11 years it was taught, and all documented in regulations, how Marines act towards one another. There is only one Sgt in the Corps and he is an E5. Each rank was called by it's rank. I once had a Lt call me Sgt when I was a SSgt and I corrected him and he apologized. That's the way it was in the Corps. When I joined the Army National Guard, I learned that a Sergeant was a Sergeant. I may have had to call the First Sergeant by his rank, but the officers just called him Sergeant. I never did like that custom, but I never challenged the custom. On a personal level I always used proper rank in most cases. It just didn't seem right to call a master sergeant a sergeant. So when Major B started his comments and finally got to the point to where he said as a CO he had the authority to interpret regulations, I gave up and accepted it. He is a major and if he wants to interpret the regulations to mean something different than I do, so be it. He is the major and I am the SFC. If I were in his unit I would enforce the his interpretation for the good order of the unit. It's not a moral issue so as a junior to him, I am obligated to obey his orders. I have trained at several different Army posts during my time in the National Guard, both stateside and overseas. While in the Corps I spent 3 years on joint service duty on an Army post in Germany. I am well acquainted with how both services operate. I have noticed that posts such as Fort Bragg with all the elite forces tend to follow regulations more closely than the tankers I saw at Fort Knox. As a matter of fact, Ft. Bragg felt a lot like a Marine base except for the different uniforms. Lots of pride in the air.
I also take it from Maj B's explanation that if I were at another post and my CO said that Lts were not peers and would salute one another that it would be just as valid as his saying they are peers.
As a soldier I had the honor of serving in Iraq when I was 58 as the Operations Sergeant for my unit. They did an outstanding job providing gun truck security for convoys and were very professional in the execution of their duties.
I hope Maj B does not take offense to my questions, I just wanted some concrete proof to back what he was saying. I never said he was wrong, I just wanted to know where it says he had the authority to interpret the AR and why a 2nd Lt was a peer to a 1st Lt. I leave this discussion to the past.
I also take it from Maj B's explanation that if I were at another post and my CO said that Lts were not peers and would salute one another that it would be just as valid as his saying they are peers.
As a soldier I had the honor of serving in Iraq when I was 58 as the Operations Sergeant for my unit. They did an outstanding job providing gun truck security for convoys and were very professional in the execution of their duties.
I hope Maj B does not take offense to my questions, I just wanted some concrete proof to back what he was saying. I never said he was wrong, I just wanted to know where it says he had the authority to interpret the AR and why a 2nd Lt was a peer to a 1st Lt. I leave this discussion to the past.
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When I was a "little Hooah" growing up in the Army, that was taught to me. Stand at Parade Rest for enlisted senior to you and at attention for officers. True enough it may not be specified in the regs that you should do it, nor does it specify that you cannot. So, maybe it was a interpretive message bred into the military, just like a lot of "unnorms". I see nothing wrong with the practice in the first place, it instills discipline, respect and is generally a motivation builder for the junior to want to aspire to achieve that kind of position and respect.
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SSG Robert Burns
I know what you're saying but it's odd to say to aspire to get that respect when you are already giving it to them. That's the same as a PFC yelling at a private saying you better get at attention when you talk to me. That's silly because that is for officers just as parade rest is for NCO's.
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(From an enlisted point of view) PVT's are suppose to stand at parade rest for PV2's so I do believe that 2LT's should salute to a 1LT.
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SFC (Join to see)
That's because Junior Enlisted stand at parade rest for NCOs, just as Officers salute senior ranking officers. It'd be more accurate to compare a Specialist standing at parade rest for a Corporal, a Corporal standing at parade rest for a Sergeant or any NCO standing at parade rest for an NCO of higher rank for that matter.
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SSG Robert Burns
You stand at parade rest for NCO's not Jr. Soldiers. See my post on this from earlier for the references. How is that so many people dont know this?
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SSG Kevin McCulley
Jr. Enlisted.. I don't know where this lower enlisted thing came from but it smells of navy.. :)
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So I was never an officer, so if you had something shinny on I saluted it no matter what, but it kind of looks like you answered your own question there. The standard is the standard, no point in having them if we don't follow them.
Maybe its different for fresh officers then fresh enlisted, but I never thought of 2nds and 1sts as being the same thing when I was in. My company XO was a 1st LT, my platoon leader was a 2nd lt, and to me there was a world of difference between the two.
But so long as we are talking about Lts, you know the difference between a PFC and a 2nd Lt right?
The PFCs already been promoted twice.
Maybe its different for fresh officers then fresh enlisted, but I never thought of 2nds and 1sts as being the same thing when I was in. My company XO was a 1st LT, my platoon leader was a 2nd lt, and to me there was a world of difference between the two.
But so long as we are talking about Lts, you know the difference between a PFC and a 2nd Lt right?
The PFCs already been promoted twice.
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No. When I was a LT, I did not do this. There are some who will tell you to do so and expect you to salute them.
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