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I have been dealing with this a lot. I have seen both ways. As per AR 600–25 the junior person should salute. I see a 1LT senior to a 2LT and I salute them. I have seen many instances where this does not happen. Most see a LT as a LT regardless of being a 1st or 2nd. How do you all feel about this?
"B. All Army personnel in uniform are required to salute when they meet and recognize persons entitled to the salute. Salutes will be exchanged between officers (commissioned and warrant) and enlisted personnel, and with personnel of the Armed Forces of the United States..."
"B. All Army personnel in uniform are required to salute when they meet and recognize persons entitled to the salute. Salutes will be exchanged between officers (commissioned and warrant) and enlisted personnel, and with personnel of the Armed Forces of the United States..."
Officers
Customs and Courtesies
Army
Saluting
AR 600-25
Edited 11 y ago
Posted 12 y ago
Responses: 1296
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Let me lend a slightly different perspective. When I was a 2LT, I noticed a lot of CPTs really like messing with new LT's. This made it hard to approach CPTs, because if you did you knew you were just in for a session of head games and would leave even more confused than you initially were. Allowing 2LTs to relax around 1LTs gives the new officers someone they can always turn to for guidance, and encourages them to ask questions and get straight, practical answers. I leaned heavily on my 1LTs as a 2LT, and when I promoted other 2LTs leaned heavily on me. I wouldn't have had it any other way.
All that being said, I still think there is a failure of leadership when a asks for clear direction to accomplish a mission and instead finds him/herself playing games.
All that being said, I still think there is a failure of leadership when a asks for clear direction to accomplish a mission and instead finds him/herself playing games.
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I'll sum it up with how it was related to me by my battery commander eons ago. " Rank among LTs is like virtue among whores, it is not required but decide by the situation and the current environment."
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I always thought 2nd LT's should initiate the salute to senior NCO's not the other way around.
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Yes--It is showing the military tradition of respect. It's free and easy to do so do it.
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CPT Larry Hudson
Agree, if I as a CO ever witnessed a good old boy attitude among my lieutenants, there would be a come to Jesus rebuke in Hq
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CPT Larry Hudson
CPT Larry Hudson - sorry, message dropped, would be a come to Jesus moment in HQ office about expected professionalism. Green officers are to learn from experienced officers. 1st Lts have learned not to salute telephone poles, a process a 2nd Lt is evolving through. Too, they would be notified their OER would reflect lack of attention and military es pre decorps
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In my humble opinion, the salute should absolutely ALWAYS be rendered. However, when I was a 2LT (no shit, there I was...), as my relationship deepened with the company XO who was a 1LT, he slowly changed from mentor to friend. After a while, he was embarrassed and uncomfortable to accept my salute, seeing himself more as first among equals. He asked me to stop, so I stopped. I never lost my respectful approach though...even when we were on a first name basis.
In the end, doctrinally, there is no reason NOT to render the salute.
In the end, doctrinally, there is no reason NOT to render the salute.
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A 1st Lt is never senior to a 2nd Lt. He might have more TIS but a 2Lt is not senior to a 1Lt.
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1SG James Matthews
In my army a 1st. outranks a 2nd. If he or she didn't there would be no reason for difference in designation. Does a 1st. Sgt out rank and Master Sgt?
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SSgt Jim Gilmore
1SG James Matthews - You are for the sake of argument a 1Lt. You enter my unit of which I am the CO as a 2Lt. You would be out of line IMO to not salute your commanding officer. Re-reading my initial post, I did misstate the obvious.
To answer your last question, Not in my Air Force. A 1st Sgt CAN be an E-6 and outrank a MSgt (E-7) though usually E-7 and E-8. In the USAF it is a position, not a rank. Just as the USAF Command CMSgt, it is a position, not a rank (i.e. E-8, E-9, etc.)
To answer your last question, Not in my Air Force. A 1st Sgt CAN be an E-6 and outrank a MSgt (E-7) though usually E-7 and E-8. In the USAF it is a position, not a rank. Just as the USAF Command CMSgt, it is a position, not a rank (i.e. E-8, E-9, etc.)
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I may be dating myself, but Lt's saluting each other was a violation of the JOPS. Junior Officer Protection Society. We looked out for each other until O-3.
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