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I have been dealing with this a lot. I have seen both ways. As per AR 600–25 the junior person should salute. I see a 1LT senior to a 2LT and I salute them. I have seen many instances where this does not happen. Most see a LT as a LT regardless of being a 1st or 2nd. How do you all feel about this?
"B. All Army personnel in uniform are required to salute when they meet and recognize persons entitled to the salute. Salutes will be exchanged between officers (commissioned and warrant) and enlisted personnel, and with personnel of the Armed Forces of the United States..."
"B. All Army personnel in uniform are required to salute when they meet and recognize persons entitled to the salute. Salutes will be exchanged between officers (commissioned and warrant) and enlisted personnel, and with personnel of the Armed Forces of the United States..."
Officers
Customs and Courtesies
Army
Saluting
AR 600-25
Edited 11 y ago
Posted 12 y ago
Responses: 1296
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Are you kidding? that's how you develop biceps as a "Butter Bar." You have to salute everybody, either a senior officer (almost every officer is...) or returning salutes from every Enlisted Servicemember and Warrant Officer. Don't worry, by the time you're an O-3, you'll learn to carry paperwork and nod, and your senior NCO's will carry their coffee cups in their right hand so as to not bother you.
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MSG (Join to see)
negative sir... we will space out our Soldiers in the proper increment to ensure a well placed salute gauntlet.
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When I first became a platoon sergeant, my PL and I were walking to the DFAC in Afghanistan and he walked by a 1LT without saluting. Of course, I, being charged with his development/mentorship, talked to him about it for hours upon hours later. I did not and still do not understand why they don't salute 1LTs but it is reality and that is all that really matters here. I will say in their defense, Soldiers aren't expected to say "At Ease" everytime an E5 walks in and out of a room and we still say "At Ease" when the CSM walks in and there are officers present. I believe it is just one of those things I don't have to understand, just know.
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MAJ (Join to see)
Agree with most of your statement but what I cant get my head around is why you were saluting in Afghanistan at all. 22 months in Iraq and 12 in Afghanistan and besides ramp ceremonies I don't think I ever saluted in country.
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MAJ (Join to see)
In a combat zone it's one thing. I've been to Iraq twice and there were times where salutes were rendered and times when they were not. All I know is when GEN Petreus, LTG Odierno, MG Lynch and BG Cordon were walking together and I tried to render the proper courtesy, BG Cordon stopped me and told me not to. Who was I to argue, I was just a 1LT.
When I was enlisted and an NCO, I was taught not to salute anybody in the field unless they outranked our battalion commander. That happened at every unit. So, I still follow that same suit in the field and in the combat zone to this day (unless informed otherwise, like my experience above).
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Should a regulation ever depend on the situation? I think it depends...
Currently, I'm a second lieutenant at a training base (Undergraduate Pilot Training). There are many second lieutenants here for training, and a good number of first lieutenants going through the same program. If I do not know the first lieutenant walking toward me, I will always salute him/her... out of respect, because of regulations, and because I don't know that person, so I don't know how he/she will react to me saluting. "When it doubt, whip it out" was what I was taught (haha). Worst that could happen? We share a laugh.
Currently, I'm a second lieutenant at a training base (Undergraduate Pilot Training). There are many second lieutenants here for training, and a good number of first lieutenants going through the same program. If I do not know the first lieutenant walking toward me, I will always salute him/her... out of respect, because of regulations, and because I don't know that person, so I don't know how he/she will react to me saluting. "When it doubt, whip it out" was what I was taught (haha). Worst that could happen? We share a laugh.
I also have 1st Lieutenants in my training class that I'm becoming familiar with. I don't salute them because I see them on a normal basis, I'm familiar with them, and they're in training just the same as me. Frankly, if I did salute, he/she would probably think I was doing it sarcastically. We are also removed from most of the enlisted airmen on base though, so the third party appearances isn't a factor. If the 1Lt is an instructor pilot, I'm definitely saluting.
In a different situation (with subordinates and/or enlisted personnel nearby), I think it gets dicey. My rule: If I don't know 'em, salute 'em.
Funny topic also, because I have an O-3 going through the same program. He told us not to call him 'sir' or salute. Fair enough, in my opinion.
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SSgt (Join to see)
I briefed hundreds of pilots if not thousands (I think) and although we many officers were informal with me, I still kept it professional because of my respect for pilots and for being an officer. One of my trainees was a friend and her husband was a former enlisted then Captain and he told me I was perspicacious when at their home one evening.
Weather units are very small and though I did give due respect I was not easily cowed. One Colonel said, I was not flexible. Big mistake, as one NCO told me, never take a risk. And in that instance, lives were saved by my insistence.
So like you said, always be respectful of rank but not awed by it necessarily.
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Is the 1LT senior to a 2LT? Yes. Should a 2LT salute a 1LT? Yes. Should an E7 salute a 2LT just because he/she is a more experienced and knowledgeable than the 2LT? Yes, because the 2LT is senior to them. Once we stop showing this respect to each other, the troops will see this and think they can get away with it, just as MSG Cunningham stated.
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Regardless of holding the same title of Lieutenant, if one is senior to the other then a salute is mandatory and also a sign of respect.
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The 2nd Lt is junior in rank and must salute his/her superior, what the HELL is wrong with the US military
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My response, off the cuff, would be, "Only if the 1Lt outranks the 2Lt."
To me, it's like asking if a Lieutenant Colonel should salute a full-bird, though both are addressed as 'Colonel'. The same can be said of the ranks of General.
Proper protocol dictates an unquestionable 'yes'.
To me, it's like asking if a Lieutenant Colonel should salute a full-bird, though both are addressed as 'Colonel'. The same can be said of the ranks of General.
Proper protocol dictates an unquestionable 'yes'.
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COL (Join to see)
I never called an LTC colonel and I never answered the phone as colonel when I was an LTC. That is not even close to the same.
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SSgt James Howerton
Agreed Sir. I was a Staff Sergeant and would never answer the phone as "Sergeant." In the Corps, there's a big difference between Staff Sergeant and Sergeant. When Navy personnel would call me "Sarge" I had to correct them. I even politely corrected a Commander once when he called me, "Sarge." I worked too hard for that rocker.
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Uh ... a salute is mandatory to officers by those less senior! It reinforces the chain of command by showing abeyance to rank.
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CPT Mike M.
You contradicted yourself a bit there. Amongst LTs there is more often than not, no difference in chain of command so "Obeyance" to rank doesn't apply. 90% of the time (at least in combat arms units) 2LTs and 1LTs are PLs at the same time. One's not higher in the chain of command totem pole than the other.
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MSgt Timothy Bridgham
CPT you are wrong, one is an o-1 and one is an o-2 there is an established chain of command. If you treat all LTs the same then what are you teaching them?
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SSG Gerhard S.
Why not ask the question: Should a LT Colonel salute a Colonel? Or should a Brigadier General Salute a General? The answer is clear. So, Yes, I agree with PO2 Keeler, and MSgt Bridgham.
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GySgt William Hardy
I made another post somewhere in here where I pointed out that not all services have LTs ranked the same as in the Navy. They show a huge difference between O! and O2...Ensign and LTJG. Using the logic shown in some of the posts, should a LTJG salute a LT (O2 salute an O3) since they are both Lts? Should a LTCMDR salute a CMDR (O4 saluting and O5)? I was raised on Air Force bases all over the world (From Japan to Greece and many places in between), I served in the Marines for over 11 years and in the Army National Guard for about another 13 or so years. I have served on Joint Service Duty in Germany and as an enlisted man on a post overrun by Officers. It has been my experience that O1s are junior to to O2s in all services regardless of what they are called. 2LTs/Ensigns are officers in training where as 1LTs/LTJGs have the experience. I cannot find in the regulations of any service where there is no distinction between ranks. It may be some exception to the rule that some officers follow, but I don't know that it is regulation since I cannot find it anywhere. I cannot find, other than what some have said here (called hearsay), that there is an exception or that it is custom. If anyone can find the exception written in an authorized manual, please post the reference and end this discussion.
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