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I have been dealing with this a lot. I have seen both ways. As per AR 600–25 the junior person should salute. I see a 1LT senior to a 2LT and I salute them. I have seen many instances where this does not happen. Most see a LT as a LT regardless of being a 1st or 2nd. How do you all feel about this?
"B. All Army personnel in uniform are required to salute when they meet and recognize persons entitled to the salute. Salutes will be exchanged between officers (commissioned and warrant) and enlisted personnel, and with personnel of the Armed Forces of the United States..."
"B. All Army personnel in uniform are required to salute when they meet and recognize persons entitled to the salute. Salutes will be exchanged between officers (commissioned and warrant) and enlisted personnel, and with personnel of the Armed Forces of the United States..."
Officers
Customs and Courtesies
Army
Saluting
AR 600-25
Edited 11 y ago
Posted 12 y ago
Responses: 1296
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You don't salute the person, you salute the rank. Common courtesy and professionalism dictate it. However, location and surroundings may dictate otherwise..such as school setting where there are dozens of mixed ranks milling about, it would make no sense to walk around with your arm crooked. I do remember that as a Sgt, a young 2nd Lt pulled me aside and chewed me out for not saluting him as we passed while at the doors of the PX. When he was through with his recitation of the rules and regs I apologized and then reminded the young Lt. that when he saw me we were more than 20 paces from each other and that a salute was not required. He turned red faced , I think because his wife or date was watching him get schooled, and I then said, "By your leave, Sir!"...at which time, somewhat flustered, he saluted ME...and I returned his salute and smiled at his wife as she smiled back....
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Remember, you are always being watched. If the regulations require it, and you don't do it, that gives unspoken permission to your junior service members (those people you are charged to lead) to do likewise. And if we can ignore one rule, then we can ignore them all. We can't pick and choose our obligations.
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I can't tell you how many times I've been corrected/scolded/pulled aside and told 'never again' or 'there is no rank among lieutenants' for saulting a 1LT or calling him 'sir' or her 'ma'am.' At BOLC saluting a 1LT was like shouting to the world "I'M NEW HERE!" It just wasn't done past day 3.
For the 1LT's I work with, a salute seems acceptable the first time you see them in the morning, but after that it gets you a glare.
I for one would never really expect a salute from a 2LT as a 1LT, and not a 'ma'am' once we had a working relationship.
For the 1LT's I work with, a salute seems acceptable the first time you see them in the morning, but after that it gets you a glare.
I for one would never really expect a salute from a 2LT as a 1LT, and not a 'ma'am' once we had a working relationship.
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CPT Keith Tully
I never saluted a 1LT as a 2LT and never got spoken to about it. And I never expected a 2LT to salute me as a 1LT either. It just wasn't a thing between LTs. Big difference anywhere above those two ranks though! lol!
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MSgt (Join to see)
2Lt, actively dissuading following selected regulation/custom/courtesy because it is inconvenient opens the door to questioning the validity of other such expectations. This is acutely apparent to subordinates and undercuts your credibility and the discipline of your troops along with it. Once you go down that road, it is nearly impossible to regain that respect.
Your response to snide looks and glares should be returned with a glare of your own and some peer-to-peer leadership/mentorship just like your SNCOs will be offering to you.
Your response to snide looks and glares should be returned with a glare of your own and some peer-to-peer leadership/mentorship just like your SNCOs will be offering to you.
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Maj (Join to see)
No matter how much people get mad at it, it is what it is. Lts don't let Lts salute one another! It's tradition! Okay, maybe not tradition, but that's how it is.
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It is the standard and it's the right thing to do.<br>However, I hardly ever see it. I asked about it when I was a wee private and the LTs explained it to me like 2LT Hooser did in his comment. It made sense to me then and it makes sense to me now.<br>There's all these little things we do as a culture that are not supported by our regulations; such as officers calling each other by their first names.<br>
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ALL OFFICERS LOOK HERE! I say 2LT SHOULD NOT salute 1LT's. (NOW UP VOTE ME 10,000 times)
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MSG John Wirts
In my time the regulations stated that all military personnel were to salute an officer who outranked them, the last time I looked a 1st LT outranked a 2nd Lt. Nuff said!
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SGT Bryan O'Reilly
I think if you earned rank you are entitled to the respect that rank commands. It's also important to tradition and so that 2LT learns chain of command. So, yes. He should give the man the respect he deserves and maintain our etiquette and protocol,
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All I can say, is that I can't believe this discussion is still going on.
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Funny question, I'm too busy trying to get 2LT to stop saluting me. I guess the CW3/CW4 rank confuse them. :-)
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CW3 (Join to see)
Corporal Kunza...to confuse you even further....as of CW2, we warrants ARE commissioned.
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The standard…is the standard. I'm actually appalled at the amount of senior officers that are saying that they would pull aside a 1LT for 'making' a 2LT salute them. When I was a 2LT…I saluted every 1LT I encountered. You are making-up your own 'standard'…no such thing! Whether there is an 'unwritten rule' or not - a 1LT outranks a 2LT…period!!
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SPC Mike Davis
Enlisted need to sue officers that punish them for not saluting. If any jr. officer refuses to salute a senior officer Then such an officer has no standing before the law in bring charges against someone who is jr while that jr. person is ignoring the same regulation. No a officer is NOT required to return an enlisted salute. The regulation concerning such matter states that an officer "should" return the salute. Thus, a officer can never be corrected in any manner for not saluting an enlisted. While the enlisted can have his life ruined for not saluting an officer. Something to do with the old custom of field hand and master I suspect. I did not mind serving my country. But, I did hate the fact that in return my country considered me nothing more then a sub human field hand with no more value then a slave of the old South.
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Debate 101. When you try to justify your wrong by comparing it to other wrongs, you've taken the credibility of your argument from yourself.<div>It's like saying yes I was late, but so was this guy and that guy. Oh ok then, you're good to go.</div>
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CW2 Carl Swanson
Ok, so here is the next one for you. Why does the Army allow SGT through MSG to be address as Sergeant instead of by their appropriate rank? Shouldn't you be address as Staff Sergeant Burns instead of Sergeant Burns?
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CW4 John Beebe, BS, DML
CW3 Walker is correct. In AR 600-20, Table 1-1 it states the correct title of address for each rank. SGT-MSG are addressed as Sergeant. The same grouping occurs when you have SGM-SMA where all three are addressed as Sergeant Major. The Marine Corps in contrast refers to the leader by their exact rank title and not by grouping, with few exceptions, i.e. WO's as Gunner (0306).
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Not only should it be done, it should be corrected when it doesn't. And you should be making that correction since you see it happen in many instances. Especially being a prior NCO you should know better.
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SSgt (Join to see)
As I see it, junior enlisted see it and get the wrong impression and if saluting is such a bother from 2ndLT to 1stLT then there in lies a very big problem. The younger enlisted man thinks he can be more casual than he should be.
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