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I have been dealing with this a lot. I have seen both ways. As per AR 600–25 the junior person should salute. I see a 1LT senior to a 2LT and I salute them. I have seen many instances where this does not happen. Most see a LT as a LT regardless of being a 1st or 2nd. How do you all feel about this?
"B. All Army personnel in uniform are required to salute when they meet and recognize persons entitled to the salute. Salutes will be exchanged between officers (commissioned and warrant) and enlisted personnel, and with personnel of the Armed Forces of the United States..."
"B. All Army personnel in uniform are required to salute when they meet and recognize persons entitled to the salute. Salutes will be exchanged between officers (commissioned and warrant) and enlisted personnel, and with personnel of the Armed Forces of the United States..."
Officers
Customs and Courtesies
Army
Saluting
AR 600-25
Edited 11 y ago
Posted 12 y ago
Responses: 1296
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I actually got clowned on by a 1LT for throwing him a salute. I quote: "Dude, you don't need to salute me, we're both LT's. And quit calling me "sir"!"
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always taught salute a officer that person is a commissioned officer. regardless of time in grade a2nd LT will salute all officers above him as a pvt thru E9 will salute all officers. understand the I got more experience then him/her mind set remember you don't have to respect the person but respect the rank. train that officer to standard if your gonna gage respect for that officer by YOUR knowledge then YOU need to bring that person up to speed have ALL the ncos in that plt train him/her 1 that officer gets that OCS school stuff out of there head not all of its bad but not all good in the real world 2you get to know him/her as a person and like wise that officer learns to know his ncos think and will respond. or act
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I really don't know why NCOs are really involved in this discussion about whether or not 2LTs should salute 1LTs. That's business between officers. I would be willing to wager that many of the NCOs who have participated in this debate hate it when officers involve themselves in NCO business.
There are much more important things NCOs should worry about than something like this.
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MSG (Join to see)
because it is our job to guide and mentor those young officers. My company wouldn't have gotten very far if i had stayed out of our commanders business.
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This is one of those issues that, while the regulation says something, most often it goes ignored. I have seen a 2LT walk up to a 1LT and just start talking. It is a direct correlation to a PFC standing a parade rest for a SPC. By doctrine, the PFC is supposed to, but nobody enforces that rule.
Should it be corrected? Yes. However, unless the 1LT says something it will continue.
Should it be corrected? Yes. However, unless the 1LT says something it will continue.
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A 1LT is to a 2LT what a SPC is to a PFC. IF that 1LT is not in a command position, then he, by doctrine and MToE, is exactly like a 2LT...only he has more pay and experience.
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SFC (Join to see)
Position does not always work that way, sir. As an Operations NCO, I am (position wise) on par with the platoon sergeants of my unit. But, I still stand at parade rest for them, because they outrank me.
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LTC (Join to see)
SGT Houde,
I don't think you understood what I meant. The Army looks at both 2LTs and 1LTs as EXACTLY the same. There are no 2LT slots in the Army; every paragraph/line number for a 2LT is actually coded for a 1LT. So, they are interchangeable. I would wager, and I could be wrong, that you are an Ops NCO for a BN. If that's the case, then it's probably MToE'd for an E7; An E5 filling in for an E7 does not an E7 make, as you are discovering; however, it is different for lieutenants.
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As many have already said, this is a show of respect for the Rank/Position of authority. If you make light of this you lose the chain of command , if you lose the chain of command you lose order, if you lose order you have chaos and the mission what ever it is cannot be obtained.
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Look at an MToE or TDA. What positions are slotted for an O1 on an MToE and TDA/ What positions for an O2?
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LTC (Join to see)
I'll just say it; I doubt most of you have time to look up FMSweb. There are no MToE or TDA slots for an O2; all LT slots are for 1LT. That means that the Army views all LTs equally; an LT is doctrinally an LT whether he is of the 1st or 2nd type. That is why they don't salute; it is truly just a paygrade difference. For those who are comparing LTC to COL, apples and oranges. LTCs don't do the job or COLs and COLs don't the job of LTCs. (doctrinally, that is. Obviously, they can be slotted 2 up and 1 down.)
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LTC (Join to see)
Oops, I misspoke. There are no MToE or TDA slots for an O1; they are all O2 slots.
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If they outrank you and are a warrant or a commissioned officer then you should salute them. That 1LT has been around a bit longer his bar is tarnished, he has earned the right to be saluted by a junior officer. That's just my opinion.
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BLUF: No. This is due in part to the fact that the two ranks are essentially interchangeable in terms of position. Example: as a 1LT I had an XO who was a 2LT. Should he have saluted me, even though he outranked me in terms of position? Of course not. It is widely understood that 1LTs and 2LTs have a different relationship than that between any other two officer ranks. 1LTs are often expected to train and mentor 2LTs as peers, not as a superior/subordinate. Adding a salute to those scenarios would simply decrease the effectiveness of that relationship.<br>
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SFC (Join to see)
SSgt Kevin Hopkins, you're out of line and my only comments on this thread have been noting the condescending tone NCOs have displayed towards officers. You're a db NCO for hiding behind your laptop and assuming that you know how to engage in professional dialogue. Do all of us a favor and get your civilian 6 out of this discussion.
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SSgt Kevin Hopkins
now who is out of line? i only stated an opinion and never once called any one here ignorant like some here have
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SFC Walter Mack
I always tell Soldiers that leadership is hard. While I may disagree with others on these forums about certain aspects of military life, I never forget that being put into a leadership role and having to make even basic decisions can at times be nerve racking. Hopefully this site is therapy for some of us.
As for that LT that didn't like to be saluted, I can't remember his name, but I remember his personality quite well. He was a Marine LT back in 1998 that had no interest in being a Marine or acting like anything but a spoiled child. If we saluted him, he would actually refuse to return it if nobody more important than him was around. He also cried about going to AUSTRALIA of all places, because his ugly girlfriend was following us to Okinawa during a deployment and he couldn't live without her. So now we as a PLT are screwed out of a month in Australia, and his worthless butt didn't even go on the deployment. The worst part is that we kept getting calls at the staff duty desk from women in Australia after another PLT got to go, and I had to answer those phone calls and look for whatever Marine they wanted to speak to. Not a happy little jarhead...
Regardless, that guy left the Marine Corps before we redeployed, and I never saw him again. I still hate that guy. There's more, but I've gotten enough therapy about him.
As for that LT that didn't like to be saluted, I can't remember his name, but I remember his personality quite well. He was a Marine LT back in 1998 that had no interest in being a Marine or acting like anything but a spoiled child. If we saluted him, he would actually refuse to return it if nobody more important than him was around. He also cried about going to AUSTRALIA of all places, because his ugly girlfriend was following us to Okinawa during a deployment and he couldn't live without her. So now we as a PLT are screwed out of a month in Australia, and his worthless butt didn't even go on the deployment. The worst part is that we kept getting calls at the staff duty desk from women in Australia after another PLT got to go, and I had to answer those phone calls and look for whatever Marine they wanted to speak to. Not a happy little jarhead...
Regardless, that guy left the Marine Corps before we redeployed, and I never saw him again. I still hate that guy. There's more, but I've gotten enough therapy about him.
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