Posted on Apr 20, 2016
SFC Dhr Mpd Pilot Team Ncoic
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To add onto my original question. Would the circumstances change if the Soldier was an NCO, possibly a mid-career NCO who knows by now their individual responsibilities and the Army standards. Should that NCO's supervisor get negatively counseled? How far up the ranks would it end? Would a Master Sergeant (E8) get a negative counseling for their subordinate? Would an Officer?
Edited >1 y ago
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SFC Armor Crew Member
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Building on MSG Rader's comment. I can see both arguments. If I have a Soldier that has failedin his duties to maintain what I call fighting weight/status (which is a personal responsibility), then it does fall on us to lay out a plan that he signs and agrees to in his counseling. This being said, there is not much difference between that and morning PT which is NOT designed to make us PT studs, only to maintain. Anything above maintain is TOTALLY on us. Height and Weight is TOTALLY on US. going on to your follow on, if they are an NCO, they know this even more. I am personally of the mindset that get a shorter period of time to get into standard or they lose that position of responsibility because they are not fit to lead by example.
ON the the question of the day though. If we have done all of what is expected of us by setting the paperwork in motion, then there is no progress I do not feel that it is on the leadership. The reason is this, we can show the way, we cannot hold the hand. As long as there is a clear and defined path, and there is a follow up on it, then we have done what we can and the Soldier and shown where they are on the situation.
Just my take on the matter,
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MSG Mechanic 2nd
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again responders look at the original question you as senior leaders, should you be counselled negativelty
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MSG Mechanic 2nd
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people in rp responding, read the thread, how far up should the counselling go
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MSG Mechanic 2nd
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if your gonna go after the 1sg, csm, co were does it stop, can we go cic
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CSM Darieus ZaGara
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For me it remains the same. While you are correct regarding the difference of professionalism and understanding of more senior grades it is still the responsibility of the supervisor of the NCO, Officer at any grade to properly counsel and coach. If the leadership is doing so and there is record of this then it falls squarely on the individual.
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SPC Brian Mason
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No. There's a point where the soldier just won't put forth the effort. You can 'order' a soldier to do better on their PT test, but some people don't have it at some point. Is the military going to separate or send someone to military prison for not passing the PT test? Punishing a superior officer/enlisted makes no sense. This isn't WW2 Germany.
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SSG Instructor
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You can only motivate a soldier to a certain point but if they don't want to do it for themselves then they aren't going to no matter how much work and time you put in as an NCO. So i dont think counseling the leadership is necessary
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Col Commander
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Yes if there is not evidence of mentoring or counseling of the solider.
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SFC Drill Sergeant
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From what I've learned in my year hell to the yes. But, that is why I provide a plan and the soldier provides a plan because at the end of the day in his or her free time I can not make the Soldier do PT on their own. So when they fail I simply show the plan I provided and the plan they provide slap a counseling for failure to commit or go back to the counseling I gave them initially and state he/she failed to comply with Thier plan. The ball is in their court now they fail themselves rather I fail them.
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SSG Dennis Grossmann
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It could go either way, If you have a team leader not counseling his troop or developing a plan, checking on the plan, insuring progress, then his whole chain can be counseled. Squad leader for not checking team leaders, PSG for not checking SL's... etc. Personal Responsibility. If the soldier fails to make ht/wt or fails pt tests. Reduction in rank, followed by processing to be released. An initial counseling should cover all expectations.
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Capt Daniel Goodman
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