Posted on Jul 31, 2014
Should an officer/NCO be required to hold a leadership position prior to being a primary staff officer/NCO?
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I have seen throughout my years that there is a big difference in staff officers who have been in leadership positions previously and those who never held a leadership position. You can tell by how they care and work with you. It appears (to me) that straight lifetime staffers are more about mission and metrics and the previous leaders and more about assisting you and bending to make the mission happen and not hurt the personnel in the process.
Do you feel that before becoming a primary staff officer/NCO that they should be in a leadership prior?
Do you feel that before becoming a primary staff officer/NCO that they should be in a leadership prior?
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 19
I'm inclined to go the opposite route. A great deal of the skills learned in a staff position will help you in a leadership position.
Formal writing, counseling, time management, tact, humility, public speaking, Powerpoint (sadly), computer skills, information management, and countless other skills are crucial to being a leader in todays Army.
You can be the reincarnation of Audie Murphy and Chest Puller's love child, but none of that matters if you can't manage your people, the ocean of paperwork, the countless taskings, schools, and training requirements, and no one's being counseled/rated.
Formal writing, counseling, time management, tact, humility, public speaking, Powerpoint (sadly), computer skills, information management, and countless other skills are crucial to being a leader in todays Army.
You can be the reincarnation of Audie Murphy and Chest Puller's love child, but none of that matters if you can't manage your people, the ocean of paperwork, the countless taskings, schools, and training requirements, and no one's being counseled/rated.
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Some Soldiers are good staff members. Some Soldiers are good direct leaders. Some Soldiers are neither. :)
I served in leadership roles before my time on a brigade and then a division staff. Honestly at first, it was a hindrance to me. I was told I was too angry. :) I thankfully had an outstanding field grade Artillery officer who was transitioning back to staff himself that helped simmer me down quite a bit. I learned the invaluable lessons, like trying to anticipate everything the commander could possibly ask before setting foot in his office and so many others. Once I understood that you have to approach a staff like a living Rube Goldberg machine where turning the right knob, lighting the right candle, and throwing the right switch is far more effective than busting in like a bull in a china shop.
Once I learned that, my leadership experience started to pay dividends as you have the ability to see outside the staff bubble and say, "wait.. wait.. wait.. If we do this, someone is going to blow up the building." Being a successful staff NCO/Officer is about being a master of human interaction and networking. You then leverage that network to get things accomplished without stepping on toes and with a well built consensus.
Once you've achieved that, going back into a higher level of command/leadership, those staff skills can work wonders at large scale organization, especially in the patience department. It is kind of like a chicken or the egg kind of an argument. All I can say is that while not everyone is cut out for command or critical leadership billets, time on a staff is still important. You learn so much about what the shops can really bring to the table (for some reason, no one ever seems to ask?). When you can get into an "I'll scratch your back if you scratch mine" that serves the command and the mission, it is gravy! It's also gives some pretty good job satisfaction. Of course, all this goes out the window if your staff is about as functional is an IPad after the EMP Apocalypse.
I served in leadership roles before my time on a brigade and then a division staff. Honestly at first, it was a hindrance to me. I was told I was too angry. :) I thankfully had an outstanding field grade Artillery officer who was transitioning back to staff himself that helped simmer me down quite a bit. I learned the invaluable lessons, like trying to anticipate everything the commander could possibly ask before setting foot in his office and so many others. Once I understood that you have to approach a staff like a living Rube Goldberg machine where turning the right knob, lighting the right candle, and throwing the right switch is far more effective than busting in like a bull in a china shop.
Once I learned that, my leadership experience started to pay dividends as you have the ability to see outside the staff bubble and say, "wait.. wait.. wait.. If we do this, someone is going to blow up the building." Being a successful staff NCO/Officer is about being a master of human interaction and networking. You then leverage that network to get things accomplished without stepping on toes and with a well built consensus.
Once you've achieved that, going back into a higher level of command/leadership, those staff skills can work wonders at large scale organization, especially in the patience department. It is kind of like a chicken or the egg kind of an argument. All I can say is that while not everyone is cut out for command or critical leadership billets, time on a staff is still important. You learn so much about what the shops can really bring to the table (for some reason, no one ever seems to ask?). When you can get into an "I'll scratch your back if you scratch mine" that serves the command and the mission, it is gravy! It's also gives some pretty good job satisfaction. Of course, all this goes out the window if your staff is about as functional is an IPad after the EMP Apocalypse.
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My personnel opinion, based on my own experience, is yes they should. But, we all know that a lot of times certain staff positions are filled by NCOs and Junior Officers who are awaiting a leadership slot, or looked as less than desirable for one. I served as the S-2 NCOIC during OIF-III with the same BN I had been a Tank PLT PSG during OIF and I think having been in that position prior, helped me a great deal. Later on I served as the OPs NCOIC for ASG-Kuwait in support of OEF/OIF/OND and again it helped me having had my leadership positions prior to serving on staff.
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Very difficult issue, I don't think an officer has a choice where he/she is positioned, that said, as a Warrant, I sought positions of leadership, and staff positions. I was an S2 for an MI Battalion, and the CI Chief for a G2 in an Infantry Division. I think it is important for the individual officer to seek those positions that round out his/her career. I have seen many great staff officers who were also great leaders, I don't think position dictates!
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CW2 Ernest Krutzsch
Explain? Most Warrant's who are not Aviators were NCO's in their former MOS, so, I contend, Leaders....
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CW5 Sam R. Baker
It is a requirement in NON-aviation MOS's to have been an NCO usually, and having sat on the board recently, the warrants on those boards vote DOWN the E-1 thru E-4 candidates for aviation because of the LACK of NCO ratings and experience. We cannot as briefed explain to the TECH warrants the reasoning for POTENTIAL when looking at junior candidates. There are those in the higher powers that wish for ALL aviators to have never been an NCO and either civilian or E1 thru E4. Something about trying to teach a old dog new tricks is the excuse.
Either way, leadership is not from a position held, it is something most people either have naturally inside them or that they find when pushed to a limit they have never been and came out leading from the front.
Either way, leadership is not from a position held, it is something most people either have naturally inside them or that they find when pushed to a limit they have never been and came out leading from the front.
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When i was an army rotc cadet before i decided to enlist i found that superiors who had held a leadership position previously had a better understanding/ feeling for how to acheive the mission. I found this is also the case with NCOs on the enlisted side. On that note, i would also make the point that my favorite officers(in my opinion) were the ones who were NCO, however by no means am i saying officers that haven't held the rank of sergeant are ill equipped
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I believe leadership is one of the primary goals of both the O & E sides of the house and should have precedence over a staff position for E5s and O1s. IMHO those are the initial ranks for leadership and that is where the initial evaluation can be made on leadership potential. From there, SMs can be guided and mentored to fulfill their potential. There are some who make better unit leaders, some who are better on staff and some who are good at both. Staff or unit, leadership is involved in both and needs to be fostered as early as possible. Personally - my own assessment - I was a good company commander, but I was a better S-6 with a small close knit section. Had I stayed in I would have stayed the staff route, maybe Bde XO or State HQ DOIM or S-6.
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I think in an ideal world, yes. And a well-rounded officer is a good leader and good at staff work. But everyone has different strengths and weaknesses. I've met officers who are natural born leaders and I would follow them to hell and back, but they can't type a coherent sentence or give a good brief. And I've met officers who can't lead themselves out of a wet paper bag but they can be useful for staff work.
In the military, we can't really fire our employees so we have to take what have and make the best of it. It's all about knowing your people and placing them in billets where they will be able to contribute to the overall mission.
In the military, we can't really fire our employees so we have to take what have and make the best of it. It's all about knowing your people and placing them in billets where they will be able to contribute to the overall mission.
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Yes is all I really have to say. An NCO who has never been a leader should not be placed in a senior leader position, ever.
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This is a simple answer for me.
Lets say you have that lifetime staff officer riding in a M1151 on a patrol, and the patrol is hit...hard, and all the unit leadership is incapacitated. Joe Snuffy is going to look to him/her for leadership regardless of experience, due to the rank on the uniform. Would you want someone with at least a platoon leader's experience in that situation? I know I would.
The other part of this is already out there, mission and metrics are nothing without people. You have to understand the human aspect of the men and women in your command before you can effectively manage metrics.
And with that I'll make a final point. We need leaders, not managers. If you are more comfortable managing metrics, that is all good and well...but there has to be an understanding that you may be called upon to lead whether you like it or not.
As all things are, its METT-TC dependent.
Lets say you have that lifetime staff officer riding in a M1151 on a patrol, and the patrol is hit...hard, and all the unit leadership is incapacitated. Joe Snuffy is going to look to him/her for leadership regardless of experience, due to the rank on the uniform. Would you want someone with at least a platoon leader's experience in that situation? I know I would.
The other part of this is already out there, mission and metrics are nothing without people. You have to understand the human aspect of the men and women in your command before you can effectively manage metrics.
And with that I'll make a final point. We need leaders, not managers. If you are more comfortable managing metrics, that is all good and well...but there has to be an understanding that you may be called upon to lead whether you like it or not.
As all things are, its METT-TC dependent.
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I'm all for attempting to "round" our NCO/Officers, but we all know those who can't lead a line through a speed-lace boot. There are also great leaders that have a hard time holding their tongue and performing well in a staff position. I say, give them a shot to learn and excel in new situations, BUT we should always post our military members in the position they best fit not necessarily where the manual says they should go. (Too many NCO/Officers rely on their assistant to lead the troops under their command and post a danger to their safety and success rate.)
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