Posted on Aug 7, 2014
Should Cold War Veterans be allowed to join the American Legion and the VFW?
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Cold War
Cold War
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 84
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I would say yes to the American Legion but no to the VFW, namely because it's named Veterans of Foreign Wars and while there were small instances off and on, there is a reason it was called the "Cold War". However, I do know that while I was stationed in Korea, there was a VFW chapter located there in country that would allow those who served in Korea to join, do not know the full ins and outs of either organization stateside though.
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SP5 Joel O'Brien
SGT Mark Sullivan - The first half of your post is indeed correct. Potential members will be glad to know that.
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SPC Woody Bullard
SP5 Joel O'Brien - When I received my orders for West Germany I wanted to be stationed in West Berlin with the military police company there and work "Checkpoint Charlie". I wanted to be face to face with the East Germans and Russians although I believe the communist East German army worked the east side of the checkpoint. Yes, I was young and not thinking too well back then. I never made it to Berlin because the army decided to send me to a NATO site. Never got the Berlin occupation medal or that Berlin patch on my uniform. How was living in Berlin ? Kriegsfeld, FRG 1969-1971.
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SP5 Joel O'Brien
Woody, Berlin was the best assignment one could ever hope for! To be assigned there AND do something I really enjoyed doing was an unbeatable combo. Aside from 'the job', being there afforded me many opportunities that I would never ever have. I saw The Stones, met Paul McCartney, became friends with some British soldiers and experiencing all of Europe in one place. You truly forgot that you were 110 miles inside East Germany and surrounded by a wall of many sorts. I was downright lucky! No doubt you would have enjoyed it too.
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SPC Woody Bullard
SP5 Joel O'Brien - The Rolling Stones were in Berlin for a concert performance ?
Meeting Paul McCartney must have been an experience. I listened to all those 1960's and
early 70's bands on the radio in the barracks. Mick Jagger, Keith Richards and Charlie Watts are still playing in concerts. They were in Florida last year. Those three guys have been together since 1962 or '63. I saw them on the Ed Sullivan show in 1964 after the
Beatles were on TV for the first time. I bought the Stones first album in '64 and still have it today and play it on the turntable. I saved a lot of my old vinyl albums and 45 RPM
records from the 1960's. I had a nice stereo system with those big speakers in the barracks and listened to all those 60's bands while in Germany. I went to the Frankfurt Festhalle in July of 1970 and saw Led Zeppelin in concert. They put on a great show.
Meeting Paul McCartney must have been an experience. I listened to all those 1960's and
early 70's bands on the radio in the barracks. Mick Jagger, Keith Richards and Charlie Watts are still playing in concerts. They were in Florida last year. Those three guys have been together since 1962 or '63. I saw them on the Ed Sullivan show in 1964 after the
Beatles were on TV for the first time. I bought the Stones first album in '64 and still have it today and play it on the turntable. I saved a lot of my old vinyl albums and 45 RPM
records from the 1960's. I had a nice stereo system with those big speakers in the barracks and listened to all those 60's bands while in Germany. I went to the Frankfurt Festhalle in July of 1970 and saw Led Zeppelin in concert. They put on a great show.
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Even if someone doesn't qualify for a campaign ribbon, they may still be able to join the VFW as long as they received Imminent Danger pay.
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SFC Scott Carroll
If you have received a campaign medal for overseas service; have served 30 consecutive or 60 non-consecutive days in Korea; or have ever received hostile fire or imminent danger pay, then you're eligible to join our ranks.
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SFC Boots Attaway
Even being stationed NORTH of the Im Jin River in the early 80s and spending two days (a full 48 hours) inside the DMZ (sleeping in a barracks 10 m from the MDL (North Korea)) we were NEVER received ANY extra pay even though we did get into a few fire fights. (The Joint Security Force Company of the UNC JSA Pan Mon Jom did loose a few men in the 70s and we had a few wounded in the 80s. So you are saying that we should NOT be able to join the VFW?
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LTC Paul Labrador
CPL Ray, they changed the rules, IIRC, right before 9/11 when the KDSM was authorized (IMHO this was to boost the membership pool back before GWOT started). If you spent a year on pen anytime after the armistice was signed, you qualify for the KDSM and are now eligible to join the VFW.
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SGT Mark Sullivan
That's incorrect, any overseas service, whether you received imminent danger pay, or not, is accepted by the VFW. So if you were deployed to Korea, Panama, Honduras, Sinai, etc... VFW will accept you, Overseas service has to be on your DD214
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I have been a member of the American Legion for 30 years. Back in the 80s when I tried to join the VFW; I brought in my DD214 which listed the Navy Expeditionary Medal as one of my award, making me eligible for membership in the VFW. The person I turned my application into, asked what the medal was for. I told him that it was for a classified operation (which was true). He told me if I didn't tell him what the medal was for, I couldn't join. I told him that I would not breach national security to join some foolish organization. I then turned and left and joined the Legion. I see VFWs closing all around, and all I have to say is; they brought it on themselves.
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Cold War Veterans can join the American Legion and the Veterans of Foreign Wars providing they meet the eligibility criteria.
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Suspended Profile
If you have an expeditionary medal you can join any of the "war veteran" organizations. Having the Navy Expeditionary Medal and the SWASM/KLMK, I have double qualifications...
PO1 James Frady
Yes, they should. Â My brother was on the line in Germany during that time. Â His life expectancy if war started was eight minutes. Â I was in the Navy at the same time and at one time we were playing chicken with a Russian Cruiser and another time there were things going on and we thought at any time things were going to get ugly. Â The Cold War was real and many of us stood on the line when things got scary, but since no war came out of it, we are pretty much unrecognized. Â I don't expect to be treated like someone who took enemy fire, but it would be nice not to be ignored altogether.
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SGT Larry Wilson
Not all cold war veterans can join the AL because the eligibility blocks many of those that served their country during this time. I served with honor and distinction between late 75 to 82 and do not qualify for inclusion into the American Legion even though as a member of SF were many times on missions that to this day I cannot talk about. I don't want to join as an auxiliary member, I want to join as a veteran.
Thats is the reason I will never support them. The organisation will most likely die off before I do and I will be the first one dancing on its grave.
Thats is the reason I will never support them. The organisation will most likely die off before I do and I will be the first one dancing on its grave.
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I believe that all cold war era veterans should be allowed membership in the American Legion. I also believe that if you served overseas during the cold war that VFW should open membership to them also. I was hoping that the military would of authorized a Cold War Defense Service medal by now. That Cold War certificate was such a slap in the face to all of the Cold War era Veterans.
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CW2 (Join to see)
I think the bigger slap was the Veteran's Preference and VA benefits of that era. I mean the military pay was not good at the time and many things like ACAP were not available for veterans leaving the service. I know that war time service is different than "peace time" but it does not mean its was necessarily easier or that there were not sacrifices like time away from family or working very long hours to support a mission. Anyhow, I hope someday people will really look at these criteria with character of service being more as a foundation rather then the mind boggling dates they come up with....
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We already do qualify in some situations, depends on when and where you served. For instance, anyone who has served in Korea for at least 180 days qualifies for membership in the VFW.
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LTC Paul Labrador
Anyone who has completed a tour in Korea since the end of the Korean war is now eligible to join the VFW. The rules changed back in '00-'01 timeframe when they authorized the KDSM for armistice service in Korea. I joined the VFW while still IN Korea in '01 prior to 9/11.
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LTC Paul Labrador
When did you try? You qualify for the Korean Defense Service Medal which was authorized in 2002. If you haven't gotten it added to your DD214 yet, then you need to get it.
Current requirement has nothing to do with WHERE you were stationed in Korea. I was in Area II (121CSH in Yongsan) and I qualified.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korea_Defense_Service_Medal
Current requirement has nothing to do with WHERE you were stationed in Korea. I was in Area II (121CSH in Yongsan) and I qualified.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korea_Defense_Service_Medal
Korea Defense Service Medal - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The Korea Defense Service Medal (KDSM)[2] is a military service medal of the United States Armed Forces that was first created in 2002 when it was signed into law by President George W. Bush. The bill to create the proposal was introduced and championed by Rep. Elton Gallegly (R-CA) and Sen. Jeff Bingaman (D-NM).[3] Several designs for the medal were proposed. The selected design was done by John Sproston.[4]
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LTC Paul Labrador
From the VFW website:
"If you have received a campaign medal for overseas service; have served 30 consecutive or 60 non-consecutive days in Korea; or have ever received hostile fire or imminent danger pay, then you're eligible to join our ranks."
Again, you qualify. Now if you can't prove you were there, that may be an issue, but your DD214 should show that you were assigned to Korea.
"If you have received a campaign medal for overseas service; have served 30 consecutive or 60 non-consecutive days in Korea; or have ever received hostile fire or imminent danger pay, then you're eligible to join our ranks."
Again, you qualify. Now if you can't prove you were there, that may be an issue, but your DD214 should show that you were assigned to Korea.
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I think the thing that bothers most vets is the dead space between 1975 and 1990. Most vets who served during this time are not eligible to Join the AL. I think any vet should be able to join the AL. Being "in" (but in many cases not actually being in a war zone) during times of war (as defined by congress) is not any bigger deal than having served during the cold war. Some could argue Cold War service (DMZ, Fulda Gap, etc.) was more intense/dangerous than serving state side during a declared war (which is an AL qualifier). I definitely don't think VFW criteria should be changed.
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SP5 Joel O'Brien
I am a Cold War Vet and a life member of VFW. I served three years in West Berlin and according to the VFW that qualified me for membership. I believe that any honorably discharged vet should be able to join the American legion if they so desire.
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MAJ (Join to see)
CPL Ray. You are eligible for VFW. You may not know it but you are eligible for the Korea Defense Service Medal which is a qualifier for VFW.
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CW2 (Join to see)
Sometimes, the rules are almost like a SImon Says game. I used to be a member of VFW Post 1610 before they closed the place down. I served in the Marines under those dead space years and for that period of service have to say all benefits were almost nothing as well as belonging to veteran's clubs. If a person honorable served his country and did what their country needed done no matter where it was, is this not service to country? Why would anyone turn a veteran down for the American Legion? After all, we to include myself look toward veteran organizations to gain the camaraderie we lost be becoming a civilian. I went back in doing a deployment for the Navy...then active Army doing deployments to Iraq (2003 invasion) and Afghanistan (2005). Sometimes, I think we concentrate too much on the dates and not enough on the quality of character a person has within them...you know?
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PO1 Thomas B.
Major , I agree with you as I fall into that 1975/1990 gap. I was awarded the Navy Expeditionary Medal for our deployment to the Persian Gulf and Indian Ocean during the Iran/Iraq war in 1981. This qualified me for VFW membership (life member) but even though we were in a "War Zone" and at Condition-III (Wartime Cruising) for the duration of our time in the Gulf, it was not designated as a "conflict? by Congress so I do not qualify for the American Legion.
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No to the VFW as it is a special group for individuals that were in a combat deployment. The War in Cold War was politically and financially managed as apposed to a traditional armed combatants conflict. Also while there is a Cold War Victory Medal the Cold War Victory Medal is both an official medal of the National Guard and an unofficial military medal of the United States. It is awarded by the States of Louisiana and Texas, and in ribbon form only by the State of Alaska. However in the medal's unofficial capacity it can be purchased, but not worn in uniform (LA National Guard can were it in uniform but not on federal property). It may be worn by any member of the United States military, or civilian employees of the federal government, who served in their positions honorably during the years of the Cold War, specifically September 2, 1945 to December 26, 1991. There are no devices or attachments authorized for the Cold War Victory Medal. So while we recognize the victory it is not a service ribbon of the uniformed solider.
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SPC Woody Bullard
Great info on the cold war victory medal which the U.S. Congress will never
authorize for the cold war veterans who served in West Germany facing the
Russian military in East Germany. The threat of nuclear war was very real.
The Russian leaders in Moscow did not wake up one morning and just pull
their military out of East Germany and all of the eastern European nations
that they had occupied since the end of World War II. Germany is a united
nation today and millions of eastern Europeans are free from Russian rule
because of U.S. military veterans who served in Germany. The cold war victory
medal with ribbon was earned by veterans but not recognized by politicians.
Federal Republic of Germany. NATO nuclear weapons site. 1969, 1970, 1971.
authorize for the cold war veterans who served in West Germany facing the
Russian military in East Germany. The threat of nuclear war was very real.
The Russian leaders in Moscow did not wake up one morning and just pull
their military out of East Germany and all of the eastern European nations
that they had occupied since the end of World War II. Germany is a united
nation today and millions of eastern Europeans are free from Russian rule
because of U.S. military veterans who served in Germany. The cold war victory
medal with ribbon was earned by veterans but not recognized by politicians.
Federal Republic of Germany. NATO nuclear weapons site. 1969, 1970, 1971.
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SPC Woody Bullard
CPL Ray B. - Agree 100% on the U.S. military veterans who served
in South Korea and the soldiers who are serving there today. The North Korean
leader is a straight up killer and he has nuclear weapons. All of you who served
and are still serving to this day in South Korea are on the front line facing that
head case and his military in North Korea. All of you were and still are the tip of
the spear. Much respect for your service and all the soldiers who served and are
still serving today at the DMZ and south of that line.
in South Korea and the soldiers who are serving there today. The North Korean
leader is a straight up killer and he has nuclear weapons. All of you who served
and are still serving to this day in South Korea are on the front line facing that
head case and his military in North Korea. All of you were and still are the tip of
the spear. Much respect for your service and all the soldiers who served and are
still serving today at the DMZ and south of that line.
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I would say yes to the American Legion, but no to the VFW. The logic being that everybody who served during that period contributed to our national success; but the VFW remains the hallow hall of those who have actually experienced hostile fire.
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SPC Franz Felsl
Personally, it doesn't bother me that Cold War Vets don't get to join the VFW, but it's worth mentioning that " but the VFW remains the hallow hall of those who have actually experienced hostile fire." Isn't true. Many have; however the rules allow vets that haven't been through hostile fire and the VFW does NOT require experiencing hostile fire. It's a bureaucratic bit of selective inclusion. A military specialty to which most of us can relate.
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SP5 Joel O'Brien
What CPL Felsl says is quite true and I'm an example of such. I am a Life member of the VFW, yet I never shot at anybody and nobody shot at me. I did, however, spend enough days stationed in West Berlin while "The Wall" was still up, to satisfy VFW requirements for membership. With West Berlin still on occupational status, that was the stipulation for qualifying for VFW membership.
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Yes. Just because it was the Cold War doesn't mean that you were not sent to areas where there was trouble. Just because they didn't call it a war or combat doesn't mean that it was not difficult or dangerous.
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