Posted on Dec 5, 2013
Should/Could the Army PT uniform be worn mix and match?
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I've recently had a conversation with people in my unit about the PT uniform. I wonder if it would work to regulate the PT Uniform where it was customizable to the SM's needs, rather than just having a "full summer PTs" and a "full Winter PTs." I realize the purpose of Uniformity when standing in a formation, but each SM has different needs once the actual physical fitness training begins. Should you be allowed to downgrade as you see fit?
Army
Physical Training
Uniforms
Posted 12 y ago
Responses: 15
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I say no we should not mix and match uniforms because it looks horrible and it does not look like a you are a team. Even though that is my personal view, old soldier ways. I had a 1SG that implemented that idea for PT and it shocked me that he allowed that. So when in Rome.... I just feel like when certain things began to get out of order, other things will follow. That falls with discipline.
I feel like i'm going to pass out wearing my gas mask, I feel tired when I have to be at work at 0530, I wanna stop when we go for long "A" runs, boots swell my feet, I wanna take my ACU shirt off when it hot ( Texas, Oklahoma, Georgia), the beret given me headaches... These are all things we have to do and can get altered due to my needs. But if it is truly not putting me in harms way, why not continue tradition and train soldiers to be discipline.
Every thing is blamed on the NCO because the soldier falls short. I believe it is because we continue to let tradition die to accommodate comfort, discipline is the main tradition.
I'll stop I was about get on my old wooden soap box, just old soldier ways and up bringing. But it worked lol.
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SGT (Join to see)
SFC Russell,
I hear all the time how "PT is an individual responsibility," and that you have to keep yourself healthy. I even had an NCO tell me that on any given day if I couldn't complete the PT regimen that I needed to go to sick call...
So at what point can I say that policies and practices are causing me harm? Only after I get frostbite, or pass out from a heat stroke? Only after I go on profile because my knees are jacked up from running in my boots?
Sure, not every Soldier is wise enough to make these decisions for himself, but it seems there needs to be some way of allowing a Soldier to take responsibility for his own physical well being...
I hear all the time how "PT is an individual responsibility," and that you have to keep yourself healthy. I even had an NCO tell me that on any given day if I couldn't complete the PT regimen that I needed to go to sick call...
So at what point can I say that policies and practices are causing me harm? Only after I get frostbite, or pass out from a heat stroke? Only after I go on profile because my knees are jacked up from running in my boots?
Sure, not every Soldier is wise enough to make these decisions for himself, but it seems there needs to be some way of allowing a Soldier to take responsibility for his own physical well being...
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During PT, yes. It only makes sense (perhaps at the discretion of your squad leader, since lets be honest, soldiers can be idiots). All other times, no. Thats why it's a 'uniform'.
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SGT (Join to see)
Yes, I recognize that some soldiers can be real idiots... But what about something like the UPS uniform... There's no mistaking that those guys are with UPS, but there's some flexibility (e.g. shorts or pants) so you can dress as you see fit (within the policy)
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SPC Christopher Morehouse
That’s true, but there is more to a military uniform than just being able to recognize "hey that guys in the army". I agree for physical training there should be some flexibility, but that’s it. Any other situation and there should still be rigid guidelines. Besides, it is the army after all. It’s not like having to wear pants when you want to wear shorts is the worst thing you’ll have to endure. Heck, if it is, you’re having a pretty good day.
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Th PT uniform is customizable for local conditions. Can you down grade as you see fit? In most cases no. If you are doing PT as a section, squad, PLT, etc., then you should all be in the same uniform. If doing it on your own, then yes, wear the elements that are the least constraining for your workout. This is typically dictated at the squad level so long as it is in compliance with command policy. If we tailor uniforms and regulations to individual needs, we may as well do away with them all together and start running around like a bunch of misfits doing our own thing and causing all manner of chaos within the organization. Uniforms aren't only to provide an uniform look. They are also to foster a team oriented approach to what we do in the military. Just my thoughts.
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My understanding is that the PT uniform has always been customizable based off of local conditions. I've never heard that it wasn't. I'm guessing local command is saying it isn't?
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SGT (Join to see)
One of my SSGs was grousing at me for showing up to PT in jacket and pants before they officially declared winter PTs... despite the fact that I would downgrade at the Gym...
The situation has been handled, and we are now officially authorized (by our SFC, the highest ranking person in our local unit) to wear whatever uniform we want to PT, we just have to be in the official uniform before formation.
The situation has been handled, and we are now officially authorized (by our SFC, the highest ranking person in our local unit) to wear whatever uniform we want to PT, we just have to be in the official uniform before formation.
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670-1 answers this question. A little ctrl-F and it's easy to find. There is no specific combination of the IPFU, unless the commander specifies one for formation. I think many people will be shocked of what they find if they actually read the reg. It also says that the PT uniform MAY be mixed with civilian clothes. Of course, there is an update scheduled, so be sure to check that one.
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SGT (Join to see)
Well... If memory serves (I'm not looking at the reg. right now) the mixing with civvies is only OFF post with PERMISSION from the command, which means that they have to SPECIFICALLY ALLOW it, rather than specifically NOT allowing it like the mix-and-match PT uniforms.
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SGT (Join to see)
But I believe you are correct about the PT uniform. The only time you can NOT wear whatever combination you see fit is in formation, when you are required to wear whatever Uniform has been announced by your command.
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SFC (Join to see)
I specifically caps MAY because that is the term the reg uses. It is important to ensure that your soldiers know how to read the reg and understand it. "May", does not guarantee that you can as you have stated. I'll have to read the update coming out and double check the off post part. I don't recall that it specified a when or where.
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SFC (Join to see)
The point I was getting at is you will be amazed at what you ARE allowed to do, if you just open the reg for yourself.
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Per DA PAM 670-1 12-6.e
There are no restrictions on the combination of IPFU items worn, unless the commander has prescribed a particular combination for formation.
There are no restrictions on the combination of IPFU items worn, unless the commander has prescribed a particular combination for formation.
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SGT (Join to see)
This is the answer I was looking for. Any idea what year that version was published?
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SFC (Join to see)
it was published march 31, 2014
http://www.apd.army.mil/AdminPubs/series_range_pams.asp?search=670
http://www.apd.army.mil/AdminPubs/series_range_pams.asp?search=670
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SGT (Join to see)
Excellent! This also addresses an issue I've long had with the fleece cap. I had been instructed not to roll or fold the cap, yet I've also been fussed at for not having it pulled down snugly on my head. Now I know to pull it down and fold it up!
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I have seen it both ways. I had a few Commanders that allowed us to start PT uniformly and then once we started we were allowed to downgrade as we wanted. However, I have also had commanders that believed in the uniformity of their troops and would not allow this. That is where the buck stops though, you need the Commanders buy off because if he nix's it, then it is gone.
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DA Pam 670-1, para 10-11e: "There are no restrictions on the
combination of APFU items worn, unless the commander has prescribed a particular combination for formation."
combination of APFU items worn, unless the commander has prescribed a particular combination for formation."
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As a former Platoon Sergeant, I would allow my Solders to downgrade but we all had to downgrade. If one didn't want to then nobody downgraded. The only other time I've seen it authorized during a APFT?
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I would have to say no. The unit command sets the uniform for PT and it should be followed by everyone. If someone is unable to physically accommodate that uniform then they need a profile exempting them from it. It is a uniform, the same across the board, and if they are able they should adapt and overcome. If they don't want to get a profile to not have to follow it then they shouldn't complain either.
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SFC (Join to see)
but per the regs it is customizable, if you want your soldiers to all look the same, all you have to do is put out the uniform you want them to wear
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SPC Jessica Stewart
Right that's what I meant. The command sets the uniform for PT because it is customizable. If the command does set the uniform then everyone should be expected to follow it throughout the PT that day unless they have a profile stating otherwise.
Now, if it's PT on your own and you aren't given a specific uniform then sure, customize at will as long as it is within regulations.
Now, if it's PT on your own and you aren't given a specific uniform then sure, customize at will as long as it is within regulations.
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SFC (Join to see)
Put this same logic against the duty uniform for the day. If the uniform is ACU's, you would be saying that one person is not allowed to wear cold weather gear because someone else is not cold.
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personally if you wear them mix and match it is no longer a uniform..........it's a bunch of clothes...uniform means alike, same as, distinctive or a stylized dress. remember as military warriors WE are different.....perhaps the civilians would mix and match and think nothing of it...but we with us , the world is watching we are better than the rest....we can even do it in the front leaning rest.........alright now you got me started!!!!
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SGT (Join to see)
SSG Marvin Vick
You say the definition of uniform includes "distinctive or a stylized dress". I say that all wearing the same colors/patterns constitutes both distinctive AND a stylized dress... regardless if one Soldier is wearing shorts and a SS shirt and the other is in full Winters...
You say the definition of uniform includes "distinctive or a stylized dress". I say that all wearing the same colors/patterns constitutes both distinctive AND a stylized dress... regardless if one Soldier is wearing shorts and a SS shirt and the other is in full Winters...
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I have a lot of trouble with my extremities getting cold (colder, that is, than you would expect), so there are often days in the fall and spring that everyone else wants to be in shorts and a t-shirt, but I need to have hat and gloves on to prevent myself from getting too cold...
What should we do? Make everyone wear their hat and gloves because SGT O is cold? Risk SGT O's health by making him take his off?
Why do we all have to be EXACTLY the same? Couldn't they just write the regulation so that any combination of the prescribed parts is acceptable?
What if I know I will be better off in the Long sleeves and shorts, but someone else would do better in the short sleeves and pants?
What should we do? Make everyone wear their hat and gloves because SGT O is cold? Risk SGT O's health by making him take his off?
Why do we all have to be EXACTLY the same? Couldn't they just write the regulation so that any combination of the prescribed parts is acceptable?
What if I know I will be better off in the Long sleeves and shorts, but someone else would do better in the short sleeves and pants?
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