Posted on Mar 15, 2016
Should I report unprofessional behavior through the Chain of Command or an IG complaint?
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NOTE: Member wished to be disassociated from this subject so it has been reposted here with the original comments.
Thank you,
-RP Staff
Recently was involved in an one way exchange with a CPT in which she directed towards a Senior NCO (SFC) in a derogatory, belittling and denigrating expressing her personal feelings toward such SFC. Since this is to get get a general consensus of what should be done, I would like to leave out names and places out but can include that the CPT's comments towards the SFC included: "you are a sorry a$$ excuse of an NCO", " you are the biggest piece of $hit I know" and continued to go on not just about such Senior NCO but included the family members.
Considering that if this was a lower to an NCO doing this, the Soldier would be crucified. If this was an NCO to an officer?, someone would be out of a job.
I heard one day that the moment you lose your bearing you lost the argument. So the SFC did the right thing by keeping professionally quiet and bringing up to the supervisor. Situation is now: such CPT has gone around telling Soldiers how "she ripped in to this SFC with a grin"...
What would be some appropriate ways to handle this situation?
Thank you,
-RP Staff
Recently was involved in an one way exchange with a CPT in which she directed towards a Senior NCO (SFC) in a derogatory, belittling and denigrating expressing her personal feelings toward such SFC. Since this is to get get a general consensus of what should be done, I would like to leave out names and places out but can include that the CPT's comments towards the SFC included: "you are a sorry a$$ excuse of an NCO", " you are the biggest piece of $hit I know" and continued to go on not just about such Senior NCO but included the family members.
Considering that if this was a lower to an NCO doing this, the Soldier would be crucified. If this was an NCO to an officer?, someone would be out of a job.
I heard one day that the moment you lose your bearing you lost the argument. So the SFC did the right thing by keeping professionally quiet and bringing up to the supervisor. Situation is now: such CPT has gone around telling Soldiers how "she ripped in to this SFC with a grin"...
What would be some appropriate ways to handle this situation?
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 258
See how the Brass reacts, if the Command's atmosphere is non-reactive or praising this lack of qualified leadership, then the IG needs to be informed
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It depends on the Chain of Command and who the individual trusts. The chain of command should always have the best interests of the Army on the forefront, but as a Veteran and as a Social Worker I have heard of many abuses by a service members chain of command. Is the immediate CoCa part of the solution or a part of the problem is the question
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1SG Healy hit the nail on the head. This should have been the business of the 1SG to counsel the NCO one on one. If the CO wanted to add her two cents, the 1SG should've been present. Even if the NCO was a POS and the 1SG did nothing so the commander felt like she needed to step in, she should've first went to 1SG.
It would be a cold day in hell before I would let a CPT speak to me like that behind closed doors. If it wasn't behind closed doors, I would've halted the conversation and moved it behind closed doors so that the junior soldiers didn't have to witness it. Sad part is, you can't do this successfully if you are a POS, but you still don't have to take it. The minute my family was mentioned in a derogatory way, all bets are off. I would've left it up to a juror of my peers.
It would be a cold day in hell before I would let a CPT speak to me like that behind closed doors. If it wasn't behind closed doors, I would've halted the conversation and moved it behind closed doors so that the junior soldiers didn't have to witness it. Sad part is, you can't do this successfully if you are a POS, but you still don't have to take it. The minute my family was mentioned in a derogatory way, all bets are off. I would've left it up to a juror of my peers.
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The SFC should have made an attempt to resolve the problems with this Captain first. The next step is to report this incident to the 1SG asap. If the problem is not rectified with the 1SG then the SFC needs to inform the Company XO and then later the Battalion CSM. I'm pretty sure it would be resolved or addressed at this level, but if not then proceed to the Battalion Commander. If the Brigade Commander and CSM have to resolve this problem at their level, its not going to look to good for the Battalion CDR, CSM, Company XO or 1SG. If this incident takes place a second time he should use the COC, but also file a formal administrative IG complaint and EO Complaint. I have seen this before, not the same incident, but leaders (Officer and Enlisted Senior NCO's) that abused their authority and they faced no type of disciplinary actions from their COC in a Garrison environment, but when they deployed and fell under a different COC and continued to abuse their authority, they were relieved of their Command or given bad evaluation reports. Don't know the entire story surrounding this incident, but if the CPT did truly chew his ass, which is not a problem if it was deserving, but in a private setting and also degrade his family members which is very wrong, it will catch up to the CPT eventually. if the CPT is truly abusing her authority it will be corrected by a good honorable field grade officer later on down the road.
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Sounds like an invitation to the wood line, if genders match... other than that, listen to top... NCO support channel, then chain of command, IG last resort.
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My first thought on this is that surely there is more to this than the information presented here. Not that I doubt this could and would happen, but I've never served with anyone who would carry on like this in front of others to this degree, and then boast about it to even more afterward. So, in my opinion, we have one of two things here, 1) The Captain's assessment is well-founded, but not likely because you don't get to be an E-7 if you're a complete basket case. Incompetence usually has a way of showing up in an NCOER, or it used to. And I would have to believe that IF said SFC was such an utter boob that there would have to be other supporting documentation which would be prohibitive to his being elevated to SFC. 2) The Captain is a thoughtless, mindless, cruel and insufferable idiot. Of course you would hope that such attributes as this would have found their way onto an OER or two, or maybe more. In the old days promotion from O-1 to O-2 was pretty much an automatic occurrence, and I think promotion to O-3 was a board action where performance reports would be scrutinized. I have no idea how the promotion system works anymore so I am basically unqualified to comment in that regard. In either case I feel strongly that the Captain's professionalism is definitely in question here. How to deal with it? FRAG her ass! LOL. Just kidding. I know, that was extremely unprofessional of me but I was NOT really serious. I am in complete agreement with utilizing the Chain of Command firstly before resorting to paying a visit to the IG's office. I have now been retired from service for longer than I served so there is most likely a whole lot which has changed since my time. So this makes this whole case so utterly unbelievable and unacceptable to me personally. It makes me question whether or not our military has gone into the dregs which also makes me doubt that I could serve in today's military. Very sad, actually, because I loved what I did and wouldn't take all of Donald Trump's billions for it.
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IG gets most action. Obviously, this is not the first such behavior of this FOR and the officer rank CoC has done nothing already. The IG not only addresses the CPT, but why the CoC has not acted. Also the Annual Soldier Sensing for Command Climate catches attention.
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Where do I start? Yes that is highly unprofessional. Especially if done in front of others. That this CPT has bragged about it is also immature. An NCO who would find themselves in such a situation should use the chain of command to address the problem, even if just observed to have happened to another enlisted member or junior officer. If done once they will do it again, and word gets around. The more NCO's who complain about this individual the more credible the evidence becomes. I would think that with the officer in question bragging about it to their contemporaries someone would say something to them, and the chain of command as well. It's not just poor judgment on the CPT's part, but shows a lack of leadership skills and maturity; and it should reflect in their evals. Whenever this type of behavior is displayed you have to ask yourself "would I be comfortable going to combat with this individual on my team?" Keep in mind that humans are complex and inherently fallible creatures. There may be something going on in this CPT's life that is causing such behavior and it could be anything from a failing marriage, a recent death in the family, or even alcohol or drug abuse. On the other hand, while in the Navy I have seen the Air Boss rip new ones....but that is what an Air Boss does, and they do so because the mistake you made could have caused loss of life including yours, and the ass chewing is done to educate and motivate. Yet that is all together different situation.
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This officer has no Bussiness doing this in front of pepole. Time for IG because officers protect one another. The IG will investigate it will go in her record. May stop her from making Major. Career will be slowed at least.
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I'm wondering if it would also be appropriate to retain Area Defense Counsel, just in case, as this is pursued up the Chain of Command, just to make sure that the SFC is in compliance with UCMJ, Army and DoD regulations and directives as well?
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The first question any IG is going to ask, is did you use your Chain of Command to report the incident and what was the outcome? I absolutely support what COL Lenertz recommends. I will state for the record though that even though you perceive wrong doing and inappropriate behavior, the community is only seeing a portion of the situation - you may not see the outcome you expect.
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This is why women don't belong in the military. If a male Capt did this in an Infantry unit the SFC wouldn't have just stood there.....
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It's all on that SFC now. I know what my collar can afford, and would not have maintained bearing by choice at mention of family. My guess is this SFC know the CPT is a peice of shit and forgot about about it as soon as it was over.
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Don't you wish you could say you piece of shit bag of ass you no more deserve a commission than the man in the moon.
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Pretty pathetic, if I was that NCO in question at the moment I would have responded by saying, "No wonder I'm what you stated I have such great Leadership Examples being shown to me at the moment "!!!
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The Captain could have justified anything she had to say when tearing into the SFC. Unfortunately for her, making the situation personal by talking at all about him s family became, conduct unbecoming and this is the time to show her the door.
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Here we go again... Another case of toxic leadership. I don't know what that NCO could have done to deserve such treatment and frankly I don't care. Leadership is about the people you lead not you. Never mind the fact that she took matters into her own hands and left the 1SGT out of it. It is this nonsense right here that raises attrition rates and lowers re-enlistment rates. Ask yourself this question: how did she get that way? Has this behavior been fostered in some way? If so, then use of the CoC will be in vein. Use it anyway to cover your bases. Just know that you are probably heading into a dark and lonely forest.
Yours truly,
SGT Cynicism
Yours truly,
SGT Cynicism
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A LT during a field op walked up to a LCpl and all he got out was "Your wife". After the junior officer woke up from being knocked out by the Marine they were brought before the CO. The LT wanted to charge the LCpl with assault. The CO asked the Marine why did he knock out the LT. Response was "I did not like the tone he had when he said My wife and I didn't give him a chance to say anything else about my wife." Captain looked over to the LT and responded "Looks like you learned your lesson about talking about another Marines' family, don't ever do that again"
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