Posted on Mar 15, 2016
SSG Carlos Madden
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NOTE: Member wished to be disassociated from this subject so it has been reposted here with the original comments.

Thank you,
-RP Staff

Recently was involved in an one way exchange with a CPT in which she directed towards a Senior NCO (SFC) in a derogatory, belittling and denigrating expressing her personal feelings toward such SFC. Since this is to get get a general consensus of what should be done, I would like to leave out names and places out but can include that the CPT's comments towards the SFC included: "you are a sorry a$$ excuse of an NCO", " you are the biggest piece of $hit I know" and continued to go on not just about such Senior NCO but included the family members.

Considering that if this was a lower to an NCO doing this, the Soldier would be crucified. If this was an NCO to an officer?, someone would be out of a job.

I heard one day that the moment you lose your bearing you lost the argument. So the SFC did the right thing by keeping professionally quiet and bringing up to the supervisor. Situation is now: such CPT has gone around telling Soldiers how "she ripped in to this SFC with a grin"...

What would be some appropriate ways to handle this situation?
Posted in these groups: F9fb8d7b Chain of CommandPhoto JAGIG
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CMSgt Mark Schubert
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You should ALWAYS use the CoC as the first course to resolve ANY problem - skipping the CoC and jumping to the IG is a huge mistake - trust me.
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SFC Richard Giles
SFC Richard Giles
9 y
Agreed, This is what we tell our troops. Why would this situation be any different? I would have unseated myself from my chair and went right to my 1SG.
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PO3 Erik Jensen
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I had a similar, but very different situation happen, to me. Ships store had just opened and the guy on watch called me to see if I would pick him yup a bag of chips. Sure, no problem, I said. As I was entering the radio room, the XO (female-Commander) was exiting. She saw what I had in my hands and proceeded to give me a hard time about it. A really hard time. Yes, I was heavy, but under the weight standards. As she ripped into me, she made me feel about 2 inches tall, which pissed me off. I did not yell back or anything, I just sort of stood there, dumb founded at being yelled at because I had a bag of chips in my hand. The only reason she stopped ripping into me was that the 2nd class petty officer, of whom the chips were for, told her that the chips were for him. No apology, no by your leave, she made another snarky comment about my weight and then left the radio room. I was pissed, in shock, dumbfounded and confused because I really did not understand what had just happened. The 2nd class, he was shocked too, which prompted a lengthy discussion with my Chief. I decided that I needed to protect myself somehow, so I wrote a paper/memo concerning harassment and submitted it up the chain of command. Each step of the way, I was counseled about how this might be really bad for my future. At that point, I did not care. From my Chief, to the Chief of the Boat, to the Ops Officer. I was told it was given to the Captain but he never addressed it with me, not that I expected him to. I just wanted him to read it, which the Ops Officer said he did. The XO did not come down to the radio room for a long time, which made most of us there pretty happy.
So, yeah, going up the chain of command is what I recommend.
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PO1 Javid Benson
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I don't know how the Army get done but in the Aviation Det community that's a closed door discussion with the biggest man or woman coming out on top. I seen a few officers get their butts whipped for thinking they was big and bad. When they say ship underway if u disrespect me you better be ready to meet me so we can handle this like men
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CW2 Stephen Pate
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Someone in this thread was saying that the top brass will usually dictate to the lower commands what kind of action to take...isn't it illegal for a higher up commander to do that to a subordinate command?
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SFC Ncoic
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very legal and the way it is done. If not EO, IG, and others have no stroke. As noted here earlier Agreed IG has no "authority" however, IG, EO have stroke as to when Commands support them. keep in mind the IG is not bringing it its the command above the other command and usually done with a phone call and discussion of the younger officers rating............follow?
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CW2 Stephen Pate
CW2 Stephen Pate
9 y
SFC Terrance Mallory, no I'm tracking that what I meant though is when someone goes to IG, then IG calls the higher command, that higher command cannot dictate what UCMJ action will taken by the lower commander, but can of course take it on at his/her level. Sorry I didn't clarify that before. I hear what you're saying and agree with you.
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MSG Civil Affairs Specialist
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Just be happy it's not a navy O3. They can murder someone with witnesses and you as a sinior nco in the army have to go through the accused to accuse them. if you don't and manage to get to someone with a higher rank the navy won't give a shit they talk it over wilst having some tea and then you can now call yourself a jonior nco. I'll never do joint duty again.
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SFC Keith Frain
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All, bottom line is this; a conversation which takes place between "2" personnel, becomes a difficult "He said, She said" scenario. However, once a credible 3rd/4th party can collaborate said conversation....game over.
If I may share something really quick, I started off as an Infantry Soldier, very rarely did I every speak to anyone higher than my PSG; officers were just not part of the equation.
When I switched to the Medical Field, Officers and Enlisted of all ranks intermingled on a daily basis; on many occasions "the Thin Red Line" wasn't even apparent. It takes both Officers and Enlisted to remember we all have our jobs to do, no matter how close the work area is. It sounds easier than said, but it will never be an easy answer.

God Bless, and good luck
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SFC Brian Ewing
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You are always, I mean always supposed to handle any conflicts at the lowest level of command first. It is not a good look for the overall unit if a Soldier feels he/she has to go outside of the unit to handle problems, it spells out a problem either with the Soldier having no confidence in his Leaders to get it done or a problem with Toxic Leadership in general.
Even if a unit has Toxic Leadership it is still our duty to inform them of incidences and give them a chance to correct the problem and if they don't and you have ran it all the way up the flagpole properly and your/the problem hasn't been addressed/fixed then you have every right to contact the IG, seek out a Congressional or however you want to try and resolve the matter as long as it isn't illegal or immoral.
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SFC Motor Sergeant
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I tend to believe that if you have a grievance with your superior the first bet is to COMMUNICATE it to your superior, now if that doesn't work then COMMUNICATE it to his superior and so on and so on... thus utilizing the chain of command.
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SFC Ncoic
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Usually this is the correct line of action. Just remember, if you do this chain of command way always if you are going to the next level if you will, respectfully let the prior level know you are. No blind sides in this way.
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Sgt Comm Center Operator
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Edited 9 y ago
Always be careful, institutional corruption runs very deep. So high there are people 2 or 3 fold removed from the actual matter. But they will interject and it will most likely be against you. In todays day and time, the game is played out like this. * Your tagged as being a problem and your attacked from behind any way they can get to you. No - No not with fists but with administrative action. And stonewalling which could lead you or any person to spend 2 years or even 5 years of you mental energy expecting an outcome that will never be.
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SFC Ncoic
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Sgt Comm Center Operator
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SFC (Join to see) - Go down one comment, read and re-read the reply from Julie Miller. This is a complex matter, there are silly stupid involved. And a person with nothing more in mind than looking to do the right thing. Will be short changed and end up DEAD - (DEAD) No Kidding. Checking to see if your reading and understanding. Point being that your up against a WALL of corruption and sometimes it's better to go along in order to get along. If that's what your BOSS is advising you to do, think that over. At times Big-Boss, Higher and Higher level management are forced to do things a different way in order to get the job done. As long as you don't have to take all the blame if something goes wrong. Think twice or 5 times before you try to change a corrupt system. SFC (Sir.,) I really want to know if your understanding me , at least a little bit - OK. Let me know, Prick
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SFC Ncoic
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I dont think we are commenting on the same post. or you need to check your meds. BTW, watch your fucking mouth.
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SSgt Jim Gilmore
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Unprofessional behavior is not acceptable in any circumstance. It should be handled when seen...even if the "offending party" is of higher rank. If you are afraid of reprisals, you run it up the flagpole first. If that yields no positive result then by all means take to the IG. That is why it exists. If you want to make an issue of the conduct, you must be able to "man up," stand up and make sure you have your big boys pants on securely. Actions have consequences and unprofessional acts by anyone are never acceptable and doing so publicly instead of behind closed doors makes it even more egregious.
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CSM Battalion Command Sergeant Major
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Always go the chain-of-command route first. If this CPT is a Company Commander (and you want to be a dick) send a congressional to both Senators, Congressman, The President IG, CG's hotline, and the BN and BDE CDR at the same time. Stand back and watch the hilarity.
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SFC Richard Giles
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Definitely Chain of Command 1st. In my opinion the only reason the IG should even be involved in this is if the CoC doesn't do anything.
I've always been of the mind you praise in public and take a$$ chewing's private.
From what I can gather from reading, it was done in public and that to me is a big he$$ no. Sounds like the Capt. needs some counseling on how to handle herself in public. Then the CoC needs to ensure she gives a class to the entire unit on how to conduct yourself in a military manner with special emphasis while in a public setting.
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MSG Intermediate Care Technician
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Oofda. My recommendations is to get everything documented and go through the Chain of Command, and keep going higher until this CPT is squared away.
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SSG George Holtje
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I’m sure this was asked “What did the SFC do?”
I’ve heard similar things said about a SNCO/Officer using grade and position to get into a lower enlisted soldiers pants.

From a SFC to a PV2 who was caught drinking with his buddy on guard(the buddy was passed out in the snow) in Kosovo.
Any number of Team Leaders and SPCs being the cocaine connection in the barracks resulting in major combat power loss due to chapters.

No CPT should be smirking and bragging about cutting into anyone(if they deserved it or not) Actions like that degrade the Officer Corps.
On the other hand, I have found myself wanting to confront a SNCO for bringing discredit on the Corps of Non Commisioned Officers by being unprofessional, arrogant, insubordinate and/or insulting because of last nights bender and this mornings coffee recharge(preferably in the wood line or behind the dumpsters)
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MSG David Villasenor
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I would inform my 1sgt and proceed to contact my sargent major in order to get the battalion commander involved. That specific action will guaranteed an outcome regarding the conduct unbecoming an officer on the CPT's part. use the change of command always.
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SSgt Boyd Herrst
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I surmise that a person that had a good formal education with knowledge of psychology and social skills may use those skills to undermind the person taunting them.. I believe though that person better have me more than “just some” knowledge but to have a lot of it, because it might backfire on them and they be in deeper than they want to be.. So the best deal is follow the chain of command and let them deal with the bully. What I
know is what common sense taught me and to let the professionals handle it..
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SSG Andre Jordan
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Always give your chain of command a chance to handle a situation. You can cause major problems if you don’t.
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CWO4 Jim Doran
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Through the Chain of Command. If you go to the IG you'd be on the CO's S*** List for going over his/her head. Even the few times (twice) I went over my COs head I insured he knew it in advance and that he knew why. The bottom line is this CPT (or Navy LT) was dead wrong and was just trying to establish herself in the pecking order. I once heard a female National Guard BG give a USA CW5 an order to which the CW5 looked at her and said "Are you out of your rabbit ass mind?" She laughed at him and said well I thought I'd try to give you an order. The BG was the CW5's wife.
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CSM Andrew Perrault
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Chain of Command first unless the issue is the chain of command give them a chance to fix it
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1SG Patrick Sims
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SSG Madden--Take this to your 1st Sergeant, and let him deal with it through the unit commander. If it's the commander doing this, the 1st Sergeant should speak to the Sergeant Major. In this way a subordinate officer will be counseled for their conduct toward NCO's. Don't directly interject yourself into this situation. Let the people above you deal with it. In the long run it works out better that way
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SFC Drill Sergeant
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Always start with the COC... if there is a conflict there, I would suggest talking with your EO representative.
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